Persicus Maximus

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carus

WI Carus' mysterious death had been averted?

[Midgard]

Originally Posted by VoCSe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carus

WI Carus' mysterious death had been averted?

The implications are pretty big - it essentially means that there is a good chance of Diocletian remaining a moderately successful officer, but little more. This means no Tetrarchy, and no Constantine. Of course, this is presuming that Carus manages to keep the throne, and his sons do not end up being but briefest of the rulers...

Now, the question is, how long you would expect Carus to live after his Persian campaign? Given, oh, let's say, between five and ten years, he can have his new dynasty become stronger than it was in OTL by associating his sons with the throne more so, and by ensuring they have good support base when time comes for them to inherit.

The potential issue is that neither of his sons appeared to have been a particularly strong ruler, although given a few more years in power and guidance from Carus himself, at least one of them could have risen up to the challenge. It is also possible that there might be an earlier division of the Empire - not a formal one like the one propagated by Theodosius, but something semi-formal where one of Carus' sons will be "Emperor of the West", and another (probably Numerian) will be "Emperor of the East", technically equal to his brother, but in practice each would have their own sphere of influence and control.

I still think that some religious change was almost a certainty by that point - the question was not if, but when, and what the new "unifying" religion was going to be. However, it is entirely possible it would have been something other than Christianity - possibly even more likely with Carus and his sons on the thrones. So, Mithraism, Cult of Sol Invictus, or possibly even something that seems a footnote in OTL could become what Christianity was in OTL. If Carus and Numerian manage to associate themselves with major victories against the Persians, and build more of a power base in the East, it could also have major bearing on the kind of religious leanings they would effect on the Empire.

What would be interesting is if any kind of large-scale religious conversion effort happens after the Empire is divided (providing it is divided between sons of Carus), not before. This could lead to a development of highly distinct two "Romes", which are not much alike other than in common history - earlier "West" vs "East" dichotomy, if you ask me. It is definitely a very interesting POD, as it could lead to numerous different things, and could have major implications down the line not because of Carus or his sons themselves, but because of who and what they might end up butterflying away.

[Bulgaroktonos]

I doubt much of anything. If there is anything the Roman-Persian Wars taught us, it is that neither side could actually hold what they took.

The Persians lost Ctesiphon several times, yet never had serious issues. Hell, Ctesiphon isn't even in the heartland of the the Sassanian empire. Bahram II will sign a treaty, give the Romans some select cities on the border, and the wars continue. Really, there was never much point to fighting the wars, but each side believed that given a couple good pushes, they could beat the other, when in reality, they could not.

The border fortifications were too good to allow invading forces to capture any meaningful cities before the forces of the defender were able to respond. Hell, when the Persians took a single city, Amida, in the 5th or 6th Century, it was big news.

Further, capturing anything outside that mountainous border region was pointless, due to the fact that as soon as the Persians got their guard up, it would steamroll through the flat Mesopotamian plain and reconquer everything up to the mountains.....thus, the only valuable thing the Romans will seriously consider taking are some important cities in the Mountains.

[Alratan]

Hmm.

I don't know. A crushing Roman victory followed by a very thorough scorched earth policy - shipping the population of the Mesopotamian plains off in bulk to be resettled as slaves in North Africa whilst destroying the irrigation systems and looting the place dry could have a long term effect.

[Homer]

Originally Posted by Alratan

I don't know. A crushing Roman victory followed by a very thorough scorched earth policy - shipping the population of the Mesopotamian plains off in bulk to be resettled as slaves in North Africa whilst destroying the irrigation systems and looting the place dry could have a long term effect.

True.

The Romans DID such atrocities OTL, and history tells us that many (most? all?) empires relied on war crimes at some time - only AH avoids this.

Thus some legions ravaging through Mesopotamia, killing and plundering everyting they can get might have a longtime effect on mesopotamia - but the Persian empire would not fall from this. For a decisive victory, the Romans must go to Persia itself.

Did they ever try?