A Jewish Holy Order?

Mojo

What would it take to create a Jewish order similar to The Knights Templar? A militant rabbinical order to be created in the middle age would certainly be under constant crusade and over seas pogrom so it would have to start small and isolated maybe coming out of really different Hasidim.

Thoughts?
 

Nicksplace27

I don't know. A holy order like that requires some sireous centralization structure (like the Pope and the Vatican). The Jews just didn't have that.
 

Ran Exilis

...you know, such a thing might just be possible in a scenario that I was considering, one that involved late medieval Palestine being resettled with Jews as part of a number of larger and quite complex political developments.

But nonetheless, a militant rabbinical order sounds a lot like reviving the Zealots, to me...
 

Mojo

Perhaps in Muslim Spain the Jews see that Grenada's days are numbered and a influential rabbi manages to convince the Jews that they need to flee arm somewhere else, say in Tunisia or Crete?
 

Smaug

At a certain level, I don't think of Judaism as a missionary religion, therefore they won't really need marauding Knights offering people conversion or death. It would've been cool if they somehow develop a Centurion or some other such bitchin type of classic warrior. Unfortunately, it seems as if they got good at being besieged:l
 

Mojo

It wouldn't need to be missionary perhaps it could be centered around the Ukraine dedicated to protecting Jews.
 

Smaug

Not so much, its just that, IMO, Judaism isn't as a obsessed as most other religions with gaining converts. I bet most are due to marriage, just guessing.

My thought was maybe a faction of Judaism, that was militant, a bit more liberal, and were always at the forefront of every conflict. Assuming Israel grows, they might just try to marry into, and absorb converts rather quietly. Come to think of it, why can't this faction get its power from how many soldiers it can field. Jewish fuedalism would be interesting. It all depends on the POD.
 

Wendell

Smaug said:
Not so much, its just that, IMO, Judaism isn't as a obsessed as most other religions with gaining converts. I bet most are due to marriage, just guessing.

My thought was maybe a faction of Judaism, that was militant, a bit more liberal, and were always at the forefront of every conflict. Assuming Israel grows, they might just try to marry into, and absorb converts rather quietly. Come to think of it, why can't this faction get its power from how many soldiers it can field. Jewish fuedalism would be interesting. It all depends on the POD.
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I think that the best way to geth something like this would be to somehow involve the Khazars.
 

Smaug

like I said, when does it happen? I suppose I'm thinking either Roman times, but the Crusader era would be cool too. What Era you talking about?
 

Smaug

Wendell said:
Probably in the eighth, ninth, or tenth centuries.
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Gotta stunt Crusades/Islam a bit.

Could there be a some kind of exodus home for Jews at this time? I read a bit, but I'm usually reading stuff thats biased, historically. Could Islam turn East, and Europe find some reason to kill each other (not that much of a stretch), maybe some wacky stuff could happen in the Levant.
 

carlton_bach

One problem is that before the Kingdom of Jerusalem, militant orders do not exist. So the model would have to come from somewhere else. I could see a few possibilities, but to my mind the most convincing one would be to have Jews form an analogue of a ribat, a community of pious men dedicated to religious learning, good works and holy war. Since the majority of Jews lived under Muslim rule, the idea would also come more naturally, and I think it adapts more eassily to the structure of rabbinical Judaism than the idea of a lifelong cenobitic order.

Khazaria might make a good starting point, or maybe the patronage of a wealthy Jewish minister in the Andalusian kingdoms?
 

Mojo

Smaug said:
Not so much, its just that, IMO, Judaism isn't as a obsessed as most other religions with gaining converts. I bet most are due to marriage, just guessing.

My thought was maybe a faction of Judaism, that was militant, a bit more liberal, and were always at the forefront of every conflict. Assuming Israel grows, they might just try to marry into, and absorb converts rather quietly. Come to think of it, why can't this faction get its power from how many soldiers it can field. Jewish fuedalism would be interesting. It all depends on the POD.
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It kills the point though. What I'm getting at is a Knightly order or something of Jews/Vengeful Rabbis with the religion changed as little as possible.
 
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