Religious Right America

[tom]

Starting at my birthday (March 5, 1958) what is the most dominant possuble Religious Right and how did it become so?

[Max Sinister]

After WW3 (with nukes), the US barely surviving, they take control and form a religious dictature (read "The handmaid's tale")?

[gianluca790]

Father Coughlin becomes PRESIDENT Coughlin!

[whmann1988]

Pat Robertson could be President and we would plunge into WWIII with the Islamic World and People's Republic of China.

[Wendell]

Roe v. Wade goes the other way. Butterflies lead President Carter to not lose the support of the Evangelicals. He edges out Reagan in the election after going Johnson in his campaign style. As such, the "Religious Right" remains a staple constituency of the Democratic Party. Bob Dole is elected President, and serves from 1985-1989. He is succeeded by John Glenn, and Glen's VP is the (then) socially conservative, pro-labor Dick Gephardt. Gephardt remains "pro-life" ITTL. After two terms, Gephardt and Gore lose (in the Election of 1996) to Republicans Arlen Specter and Pete Wilson. The democrats win in 2000 with a ticket of Dick Gephardt and Bill Bradley. Gore and Bradley are reelected in 2004.

Possible changes in U.S. and world policy?

U.S.:
Death Penalty Ended.
Abortion laws decided by the states
"Green evangelism" is the trend
Gay marriage is not popular, except for small movements in several parties
Christianity is used to justify a more openly peaceful U.S. foreign policy in the world.
Dennis Kucinich's "Department of Peace" proposal is before the U.S. Congress.

World:
Gorbachev's reforms in the U.S.S.R. were more successful. That country still exists today. Many consider it to be an "authoritarian social democracy" with legalized and utilized capital punishment.

[nunya]

Originally Posted by Wendell

Roe v. Wade goes the other way. Butterflies lead President Carter to not lose the support of the Evangelicals. He edges out Reagan in the election after going Johnson in his campaign style. As such, the "Religious Right" remains a staple constituency of the Democratic Party. Bob Dole is elected President, and serves from 1985-1989. He is succeeded by John Glenn, and Glen's VP is the (then) socially conservative, pro-labor Dick Gephardt. Gephardt remains "pro-life" ITTL. After two terms, Gephardt and Gore lose (in the Election of 1996) to Republicans Arlen Specter and Pete Wilson. The democrats win in 2000 with a ticket of Dick Gephardt and Bill Bradley. Gore and Bradley are reelected in 2004.

Possible changes in U.S. and world policy?

U.S.:
Death Penalty Ended.
Abortion laws decided by the states
"Green evangelism" is the trend
Gay marriage is not popular, except for small movements in several parties
Christianity is used to justify a more openly peaceful U.S. foreign policy in the world.
Dennis Kucinich's "Department of Peace" proposal is before the U.S. Congress.

World:
Gorbachev's reforms in the U.S.S.R. were more successful. That country still exists today. Many consider it to be an "authoritarian social democracy" with legalized and utilized capital punishment.

The new country suxxorz.I thought the Religous Right was the Religous RIGHT.Looks pretty lefty to me.

[Wendell]

Originally Posted by nunya

The new country suxxorz.I thought the Religous Right was the Religous RIGHT.Looks pretty lefty to me.

What does the RR care about economic issues beyond tax perks? with a more socially conservative country, they stay a core constituency of the Democrats.

Oh, no NAFTA ITTL.

[David bar Elias]

Originally Posted by Wendell

Roe v. Wade goes the other way. Butterflies lead President Carter to not lose the support of the Evangelicals. He edges out Reagan in the election after going Johnson in his campaign style. As such, the "Religious Right" remains a staple constituency of the Democratic Party. Bob Dole is elected President, and serves from 1985-1989. He is succeeded by John Glenn, and Glen's VP is the (then) socially conservative, pro-labor Dick Gephardt. Gephardt remains "pro-life" ITTL. After two terms, Gephardt and Gore lose (in the Election of 1996) to Republicans Arlen Specter and Pete Wilson. The democrats win in 2000 with a ticket of Dick Gephardt and Bill Bradley. Gore and Bradley are reelected in 2004.

Possible changes in U.S. and world policy?

U.S.:
Death Penalty Ended.
Abortion laws decided by the states
"Green evangelism" is the trend
Gay marriage is not popular, except for small movements in several parties
Christianity is used to justify a more openly peaceful U.S. foreign policy in the world.
Dennis Kucinich's "Department of Peace" proposal is before the U.S. Congress.

World:
Gorbachev's reforms in the U.S.S.R. were more successful. That country still exists today. Many consider it to be an "authoritarian social democracy" with legalized and utilized capital punishment.

Interesting take on it.

I'm guessing the Republicans are a socially liberal/fiscally conservative party that does especially well in New England, the Pacific Northwest, and the Great Lakes Region (and the more libertarian-oriented West), while the Democrats do very well in the South and are competative in places like Utah.

Hmm...I'd imagine African-Americans and Latinos are even more solidly Democratic in such a TL (due to the generous Dem-supported social programs and sympathy for immigrants) while the Jews are more evenly split (socially liberal but economically liberal), while women are more likely to vote Republican (due to the perceived intrusivness of some Democratic initiatives).

[Wendell]

Originally Posted by David bar Elias

Interesting take on it.

I'm guessing the Republicans are a socially liberal/fiscally conservative party that does especially well in New England, the Pacific Northwest, and the Great Lakes Region (and the more libertarian-oriented West), while the Democrats do very well in the South and are competative in places like Utah.

Hmm...I'd imagine African-Americans and Latinos are even more solidly Democratic in such a TL (due to the generous Dem-supported social programs and sympathy for immigrants) while the Jews are more evenly split (socially liberal but economically liberal), while women are more likely to vote Republican (due to the perceived intrusivness of some Democratic initiatives).

Exactly. It produces an interesting situation, does it not. Maybe this should be made into a more serious and developed TL...

Did you notice ITTL that the U.S. has its first Jewish President?

[David bar Elias]

Originally Posted by Wendell

Exactly. It produces an interesting situation, does it not. Maybe this should be made into a more serious and developed TL...

Did you notice ITTL that the U.S. has its first Jewish President?

Yes. Arlen Specter isn't someone who often becomes President in ATLs...surprising, since IOTL he's from a pretty important state and can appeal to some people who normally don't vote Republican.

Maybe Joe Lieberman would have a better chance of becoming POTUS to.

Yeah, I'd like to see this timeline. For a POD, you could have Jimmy Carter successfuly get elected to the Governorship of Georgia in 1966 (IOTL he lost and suffered a major depression before becoming "born again"). In TTL, he learns how to enforce his will amongst legislators becomes born again a few years later than IOTL.

He builds up very positive national press, since his progressive legislation keeps Georgia unusually calm amongst the social chaos stemming from the Vietnam era. By the time Nixon has resigned from Watergate, Carter is ready to run for President. He isn't "Jimmy Who?" since he has such a positive national image from years of beneficial press coverage...and he has a natural charm built up from years of dealing with the GA legislature. He also cements the influential (and growing) constituency of very religious Southern voters, and promotes a sense of healing and renewal from the "Republican Malaise."

To further gain credit on national security issues, he picks Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson of Washington State as his Veep choice. And he has a solid lead in the polls going into the 1976 election...

Is that a good start?

[NapoleonXIV]

You seem to be taking the less influential parts of today's RR and elevating them to the main parts. Now a Carter emphasis might indeed do that, but I don't think it would last.

The main sticking point will be abortion. The RR will not accept states that have it and try to pressure them not to with Fed policy or campaign for a forbidding Constitutional Amendment. This will bring out the Womens Rights Groups and revive the ERA. The RR will radicalize in response to this and carry this over into other issues, such as gay rights.

Now you have women and gays against you. All you need is a major monetary scandal. Seeing how many occur now I don't think that will take long.

[NapoleonXIV]

Originally Posted by nunya

The new country suxxorz.I thought the Religous Right was the Religous RIGHT.Looks pretty lefty to me.

You seem to be taking the less influential parts of today's RR and elevating them to the main parts. Now a Carter emphasis might indeed do that, but I don't think it would last.

The main sticking point will be abortion. The RR will not accept states that have it and try to pressure them not to with Fed policy or campaign for a forbidding Constitutional Amendment. This will bring out the Womens Rights Groups and revive the ERA. The RR will radicalize in response to this and carry this over into other issues, such as gay rights.

Now you have women and gays against you. All you need is a major monetary scandal. Seeing how many occur now I don't think that will take long.

[Wendell]

Originally Posted by NapoleonXIV

You seem to be taking the less influential parts of today's RR and elevating them to the main parts. Now a Carter emphasis might indeed do that, but I don't think it would last.

The main sticking point will be abortion. The RR will not accept states that have it and try to pressure them not to with Fed policy or campaign for a forbidding Constitutional Amendment. This will bring out the Womens Rights Groups and revive the ERA. The RR will radicalize in response to this and carry this over into other issues, such as gay rights.

Now you have women and gays against you. All you need is a major monetary scandal. Seeing how many occur now I don't think that will take long.

As you said, these are not impossible things to do...hhhmmm, maybe allow Roe v. Wade to be a major issue of the 1976 campaign?

[Firestorm]

Originally Posted by Wendell

What does the RR care about economic issues beyond tax perks? with a more socially conservative country, they stay a core constituency of the Democrats.

Oh, no NAFTA ITTL.

I'd also imagine a more Buchananite foriegn policy, as opposed to Clintonian peacekeeping and Bush's War on Terror. Neo-conservatism and neo-liberalism would both have small yet moderately powerfull followings.

I wonder what American anarchism would look like in this timeline, without the anti-globalisation movement.

[Wendell]

Originally Posted by Firestorm

I'd also imagine a more Buchananite foriegn policy, as opposed to Clintonian peacekeeping and Bush's War on Terror. Neo-conservatism and neo-liberalism would both have small yet moderately powerfull followings.

I wonder what American anarchism would look like in this timeline, without the anti-globalisation movement.

The Republicans ITTL will be more solidly neoliberal most likely, with probably a more buchananite foreign policy, yes. The cold war will have been "won" by the decision ITTL of the Warsaw Pact to dissolve itself, and a more Democratic USSR exists, or will come to exist. U.S. Neoconservatism will, however, be far weaker, yes.

I don't know about anarchism in this TL, but perhap[s it is more religiously inspired?

[David bar Elias]

Originally Posted by Wendell

The Republicans ITTL will be more solidly neoliberal most likely, with probably a more buchananite foreign policy, yes. The cold war will have been "won" by the decision ITTL of the Warsaw Pact to dissolve itself, and a more Democratic USSR exists, or will come to exist. U.S. Neoconservatism will, however, be far weaker, yes.

I don't know about anarchism in this TL, but perhap[s it is more religiously inspired?

What about my idea for a POD?

I'm thinking that ITTL, Carter, with his legislative skills and with a firm foreign policy, is able to set America on the road to recovery, and win reelection in 1980. IOTL, Carter was the POTUS who enacted the first restrictions on abortion...here, I'm thinking that it's far more extensive.

Thoughts?

[Dan1988]

So the Dems become the American conservative party and the Republicans become the American liberal party. Not bad, considering that's how it originally was.

[David bar Elias]

Originally Posted by Dan1988

So the Dems become the American conservative party and the Republicans become the American liberal party. Not bad, considering that's how it originally was.

Actually, the Dems are still very economically liberal in this scenario...they're just socially conservative.

[Dan1988]

The GOP in OTL are economically liberal; apparently that's part of the American conservative tradition.

[Count Dearborn]

How about a more vocal and militant response to the election of John F. Kennedy? Billy Graham spoke out against his running for office on the fact that Kennedy was Catholic.