AH Challenge: the Papal States unite Italy!

I remember a while back there was a question of which nation would unite Germany if Prussia was thrown out of the midst. So here's my challenge; not only get the Papal States to rule all of Italy, but have the Pope also reign as a secular ruler over the entire peninsula (even if only in theory). Bonus points if you can get them as Holy Roman Emperors as well, and have this nation extend into Germany/Switzerland/France, etc.

How would this country arise? What POD would be plausible? What would be its effects on history?
 
This actually happens in the Aeolus TL from Gurps AE2. If only because neither the Habsburgs nor the Bourbons want the other one get Italy.
 
Tough one - suppose the Protestants had managed to take over the HRE in the early 17th century and gone on to break the Austrian Hapsburgs?
The Papacy might have ended up as the major Spanish ally - taking the lead in the wars against the Turks as well as the Protestants, and ultimately picked up Milan and the Sicilies when the Spanish Hapsburgs failed.

But I think you'd probably have to go back further and butterfly away the Italian Wars. I don't think the Papal States ever really recovered from the sack of Rome.

Perhaps Cesare Borgia conquers Italy in the name of his father?
 
but have the Pope also reign as a secular ruler over ......


I find this to be an oxy-moron.....Maybe I'm reading it to simply. Can a Pope rule in this fashion? Maybe I'm reading more into this.
 
but have the Pope also reign as a secular ruler over ......


I find this to be an oxy-moron.....Maybe I'm reading it to simply. Can a Pope rule in this fashion? Maybe I'm reading more into this.

He did rule in that fashion when the Papal States covered about half of Europe at one time or another. Basically, to get the Pope as a secular ruler, you need an established legislature and prime minister to act as the government.

I one time wrote a sci-fi piece where the major human power in the galaxy was the Papal Republic, a Catholic police-state where the Pope was the ruler and the Inquisition was the secret police. Non-Catholics were tolerated, but were generally watched very carefully by the Inquisition (especially non-Christians).
 
The unification movement shifts a bit south.

What was the gov't of the Papal States like? Was the Pope absolute or was there a sort of democracy in place?

Anyway, the Pope gives public support to the movement, unifying Italy. If there's a democratic system in place, just have him be elected PM. It'd be a bit like the British Queen being elected PM.
 
He did rule in that fashion when the Papal States covered about half of Europe at one time or another. Basically, to get the Pope as a secular ruler, you need an established legislature and prime minister to act as the government.

I one time wrote a sci-fi piece where the major human power in the galaxy was the Papal Republic, a Catholic police-state where the Pope was the ruler and the Inquisition was the secret police. Non-Catholics were tolerated, but were generally watched very carefully by the Inquisition (especially non-Christians).

I was raised Catholic, and that scares me...Secular.......its the way to run a country!!!!!!!!!
 
Perhaps Cesare Borgia conquers Italy in the name of his father?


That would be an interesting scenario. Whether such an Italy could hold after Pope Alexander's VI death is another question... unless Cesare keeps the cardinal hat earlier on before marching off
 
I suppose Savoy and Venice would both be indepedant in this scernario?
Why? Both fell at various times OTL, especially Savoy.. maybe Venice with it's navy and large piles of money to pay people off, but I don't see why the Papal States, having unified the rest of Italy, wouldn't go for Savoy.
 
I suppose Savoy and Venice would both be indepedant in this scernario?
Which scenario? The Cesare Borgia one?
Quite a lot of things will be independant (or at least not controlled by the Papacy) for quite some time, no matter how well things turn out for Cesare.

Historically he controlled the Romagna and was in a position to invade Tuscany in 1503, when Alexander VI died, Cesare fell ill and was suckered by Cardinal della Rovere into supporting his election as Pope. Ironically, after getting rid of Cesare, Pope Julius II tried to follow through with the Borgia plan of turning the Papal State into a major secular power, but ultimately failed because he lacked the military muscle to lead his own alliances, and his various Leagues succeeded only in replacing one occupying power with another, with Italy weakening with every new war.

Suppose Alexander VI lives another couple of years. Cesare marches on Tuscany, forces Siena into his alliance and takes Florence. When Alexander dies, he takes Machiavelli's advice and alles with Spain (which has just pushed the French out of Naples). A compliant Spaniard is made Pope, with Cesare as Captain-General and de facto Prime Minister. Assuming this all stands up, in a few years' time he's in a position to move against Venice, and with the Spanish alliance and the wealth of Florence he has no need to bring in the French (as Julius II was forced to, only to watch them reap the spoils). Venice is defeated (as per OTL), and the Papal State takes control of (or at least hegemony over) Mantua, Ferrara and the former Venetian territories around Padua. The price of Spanish support will likely be to help remove the French from Lombardy (which Cesare wants to do anyway). The French are defeated (Cesare and Gonzalo de Cordoba are a scary combination), Milan becomes a Hapsburg possesion and the Papal State takes Modena. When the dust settles, the Spanish have Naples and Milan, Venice retains the Veneto and the Papal State has pretty much everything in between (though its control of the northern duchies is likely to be fairly loose).

That's about as much as Cesare can hope for, even if dad is pulling for him in Heaven. But the Papacy is now the pre-eminent Italian state and a genuine player, rather than a pawn, on the European stage. A later ruler could ally with France to break the Spanish hold on southern Italy, then swap back to the Hapsburgs against the French and so on, gaining every cycle. Venice, Genoa and Savoy will be the last stages in the process, which could well take centuries.
 
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