Superpower Empire: China

[G.Bone]

Was there any major changes in TTL's computers/net and car tech?

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by G.Bone

Was there any major changes in TTL's computers/net and car tech?

There was. In this TL, China was, along with Japan and the USA, an early player in the field of information technologies, and the resulting emulation has led to both hardware and software being a few years more advanced than they are in OTL--nothing too spectacular, however. The equivalent of Windows XP was released in the late 1990s, things like that. Also, since China has the highest number of PCs in the world (although still a lower per capita figure than the USA), followed by India, over 40% of online communications take place in Chinese.
Car technology is also somewhat more advanced, especially alternative fuels technology: for both strategic, economic and environmental reasons, the Chinese government encouraged domestic car manufacturers to focus on alternative fuels from the early 1990s, when it became obvious that China's growing dependency on oil imports spelled trouble in the long run. This effort led to the commercialization of the first hybrid cars around 1997. By 2005 most government-owned vehicles (apart from the military ones) use hybrid engines, and the proportion of such vehicles in China at large is 8% and growing. As those cars have begun being exported to Western markets, other countries' car manufacturers are busily trying to catch up.

[Hendryk]

The latest additions to this TL of mine have a decidedly martial flavor, and more of it is probably to be expected with MBarry829 playing this ATL China on ME6. Perhaps I should lighten the mood with a fashion-centered digression. First, however, one last word about the CAF fighters: while outwardly similar to the Swedish models, in fact their internal components and, in the case of the latest versions, their weapons systems are mostly Chinese; upwards of 80% of the licence-produced version of the JAS-39 Gripen is made of Chinese components. These planes, while still refered to as Saabs in international circles, are actually designated Huofeng in China (thus the Saab JAS-39 is really the Huofeng-12). The proportion of Chinese components has steadily risen since the 1950s to the point where little but the hull remains identical, and Chinese engineers are now a few short years away from developing a fighter plane from the ground up.

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

1. Is Chinese traditional dress more prevalent in your TL? I often seen Indians dressed in saris in the U.S., but never any East Asians.

As I wrote in an earlier post, in this TL Chinese people have, like the Indians, retained more traditional elements in their clothing, and many women still wear the qipao. So, an exemple of how they look in it:

[Hendryk]

Chinese clothing in this TL runs the gamut from traditional to Westernized, with every variation in between. More examples:

[Hendryk]

Since the 1960s and the advent of the miniskirt in the Western world, qipaos have also come in shorter versions.

[G.Bone]

I.....see.......


BTW- *not looking at the pictures* -

I was watching Iron Monkey the other day and I was wondering what type of clothing is worn in that particular movie? Does the men (i.e. what they wear in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) have a name for their clothing as well?

[Hendryk]

More examples...
"Clouds bring back to mind her dress, the flowers her face.
Winds of spring caress the rail where sparkling dew-drops cluster."
--Li Bai

[G.Bone]

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

Oh and does this China have a problem with overpopulation as OTL?

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by G.Bone

Oh and does this China have a problem with overpopulation as OTL?

Well, in this TL there was neither the massive death toll from the Great Leap Forward nor the one-child policy; OTOH, outmigration has taken place in greater numbers, and rising standards of living have led to decreasing birth rates. The total population in China is 1,563 million in 2004 with a 1.9% annual growth rate; another 79 million Chinese live in other countries (I've detailed the migration patterns in an earlier post).
You won't mind another example of qipao, will you?

[Matt]

Hendryk's thanks for the population numbers, even more then what I was expecting.

What's the current internal political situation?

And uh..... Girls... I like girls

[NFR]

Originally Posted by Hendryk

Well, in this TL there was neither the massive death toll from the Great Leap Forward nor the one-child policy; OTOH, outmigration has taken place in greater numbers, and rising standards of living have led to decreasing birth rates. The total population in China is 1,563 million in 2004 with a 1.9% annual growth rate; another 79 million Chinese live in other countries (I've detailed the migration patterns in an earlier post).
You won't mind another example of qipao, will you?

Also, however, without Mao's ludicrous drive for more births. Between 1960 and 1980, despite great famines, cultural revolution, population grew from 600 million to a billion, so without Mao that ought lower the figure somewhat.

[Strategos' Risk]

Bah. The qipao is a barbarian dress invented by Manchus!

Nice pics, though.

[AuroraBorealis]

Congrats on a well thought out timeline....

Just a point though...what is the political dynamic between China and Japan in the pivotal years 1912-1916?

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by NFR

Also, however, without Mao's ludicrous drive for more births. Between 1960 and 1980, despite great famines, cultural revolution, population grew from 600 million to a billion, so without Mao that ought lower the figure somewhat.

Not necessarily. Between the 1940s and 1970s, this TL's China underwent a similar demographic transition to other developing countries, with a 30-year or so lag between the decrease in mortality rates resulting from better health care and rising prosperity, and the decrease in birth rates resulting from the generalization of the urban middle-class lifestyle; so even without top-down natalist policies there was a significant demographic swell. Especially in the countryside, large families remained the norm well into the 1970s.

[G.Bone]

erm.....the last pic wasn't showing

BTW- you didn't answer my question on what the men's dress in CTHD is called.

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by G.Bone

BTW- you didn't answer my question on what the men's dress in CTHD is called.

Well, CTHD takes place during the Qing dynasty, so the men's dress is the tangzhuang. Until the takeover by the Manchus, Chinese men wore a different style of robe which was known as the hanfu. But I haven't seen "Iron Monkey", so I don't know what they wear in that one.

Originally Posted by G.Bone

erm.....the last pic wasn't showing

Does this one? An example of mini-qipao, which raised a few eyebrows when it was introduced in my ATL's early 1970s, but has remained a recurring fashion statement since then.

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by AuroraBorealis

what is the political dynamic between China and Japan in the pivotal years 1912-1916?

During that time, Sino-Japanese relations are in a state of flux, but altogether not that friendly. The Japanese were quite satisfied with the political weakness of the late Qing dynasty, as they could get away with annexing Taiwan, claiming Korea as a colony, and taking over from the Russians in Manchuria. So they are less than pleased when it becomes obvious than Kang's intent is to set the country on a path of nationalist self-assertion and economic modernization. The first diplomatic clash comes as early as 1914: Japan and China both ostensibly ally with the Entente powers, but only in order to claim Germany's possessions on the Shandong peninsula. China gets them first by attacking the German garrison stationed in Qingdao, and from then on it becomes fairly obvious on both sides that another Sino-Japanese war is a definite possibility; it's one of the reasons why the Chinese leadership takes steps to modernize the military with the help of French and British advisors, and begins to import Western weapons and equipment.
However, that doesn't stop the two countries from trading with one another, and many Chinese students keep enrolling in Japanese universities until the end of the 1920s.

[AuroraBorealis]

Originally Posted by Hendryk

During that time, Sino-Japanese relations are in a state of flux, but altogether not that friendly. The Japanese were quite satisfied with the political weakness of the late Qing dynasty, as they could get away with annexing Taiwan, claiming Korea as a colony, and taking over from the Russians in Manchuria. So they are less than pleased when it becomes obvious than Kang's intent is to set the country on a path of nationalist self-assertion and economic modernization. The first diplomatic clash comes as early as 1914: Japan and China both ostensibly ally with the Entente powers, but only in order to claim Germany's possessions on the Shandong peninsula. China gets them first by attacking the German garrison stationed in Qingdao, and from then on it becomes fairly obvious on both sides that another Sino-Japanese war is a definite possibility; it's one of the reasons why the Chinese leadership takes steps to modernize the military with the help of French and British advisors, and begins to import Western weapons and equipment.
However, that doesn't stop the two countries from trading with one another, and many Chinese students keep enrolling in Japanese universities until the end of the 1920s.

So No 21 Demands then? I don't see the Japanese not making them even under this timeline.....WWI is as much a culmination of Japanese ambitions in East Asia. With the Great powers occupied They are still going to make there play In South Manchuria at the least. They have already beaten the Chinese once and the Russians. I don't see 3 years being sufficient time to dissuade the Japanese from there ambitions.

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by AuroraBorealis

So No 21 Demands then? I don't see the Japanese not making them even under this timeline...

Japan does present the "21 demands" to the Chinese government in 1915; that much isn't affected by the POD. But Kang is in a stronger and more stable position than Yuan in OTL, having just got a significant popularity boost from the reclamation of the German possessions in Shandong, and not having to deal, as Yuan did, with a state of virtual civil war and constant questioning of his legitimacy. That makes him able to call Japan's bluff and to stall until the Washington Conference, when Japan agrees to drop the demands.

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by MBarry829

What's the current internal political situation?

In 2005, the nominal head of state is Emperor Wensheng, who succeeded his father Guoxing in 1971, but, as explained in post 23, has since the late 1970s been content with a figurehead role, like his post-WW2 Japanese counterpart. The executive branch comprises an upper house of Imperial appointees (the position is non-hereditary) and Provincial delegates, whose power has been gradually reduced since the 1940s, and a lower house of elected representatives. The current majority party is the center-left National People's Party, with the right-wing Growth and Stability Party and the left-libertarian Progressive Party in the opposition. The NPP chairperson and Prime Minister since 2001 is Yao Zheng, the first woman to reach that position. General elections are held every 6 years according to a principle of qualified proportional representation; every mentally-able adult is entitled to vote (universal suffrage dates from 1947, and the voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 in 1979).
China's political structure was gradually decentralized in the 1970s and 1980s, although it remains somewhat top-down by Western standards (more like the UK than like the USA). The provinces have their own parliaments, and a certain amount of legislative autonomy; Tibet, Xinjiang, Ningxia and Mongolia have a comparatively higher level of self-rule, especially as regards education and cultural policies.