Alternate major ideology for the 20th century?

Strategos' Risk · Dec 3, 2006

By World War II, it's safe to say that the major three ideologies of the world were liberal democracy coupled with capitalism, fascism, and communism.

But could another ideology (or more) had either replaced one (or more) of the ones above, or also gained great traction among the great powers in Eurasia and the Americas at that time?

NapoleonXIV · Dec 3, 2006

My first reaction is no. An ideology is an organic growth of the times, a complex response of millions to the circumstances of their lives. If one was able to exist, it would.

Having said that, I've always wondered what would have happened if Hitler was not a racist. Might Mussolini type Fascism have become the dominant type?

Peronism is another possible candidate, though most would find it to be just another fascist variation.

Going the other way, what about a totally race based thing, where the races are white/black, from the US and/or South Africa. I read a story by John Brunner which had something like this. (the whites were called "blankes" from the dutch for "white" and the blacks were "nies..." from "nieblanke".) The Jagged Orbit, I think.

Max Sinister · Dec 3, 2006

Where'd be the difference to other race-based ideologies?

Fletch · Dec 3, 2006

Strategos' Risk said:
By World War II, it's safe to say that the major three ideologies of the world were liberal democracy coupled with capitalism, fascism, and communism.

But could another ideology (or more) had either replaced one (or more) of the ones above, or also gained great traction among the great powers in Eurasia and the Americas at that time?

To the ideologies youve mentioned, I would add Democratic Socialism, such as was exhibited by the Atlee government in Britain.

Perhaps a slave based system if the CSA had won the American Civil War would be an alternative, although not a very nice one.

lounge60 · Dec 3, 2006

Maybe "Personalism"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personalism

ninebucks · Dec 3, 2006

Ideologies develope to fill gaps in peoples' lives. For example, if the developements that brought about socialism did not occur there would inevitably be another movement that would arise to pander to and empower the working classes.

But I don't think there can be too many competing ideologies in the world. It seems to me that it tends to balance out with just two or three ideological blocks (the arrival of fascism upset the liberal democratic-socialist balance, and that was why it was eradicated in such short a time).

Berra · Dec 3, 2006

I possibility might be a social engeneering from the top during the early 1900s. A bit like social democracy but done by buissness leaders and corporate cities.

As for the late 1900s. Socialism claims to be the workers ideology. What about the unemployeds ideology?

Fletch · Dec 3, 2006

Berra said:
As for the late 1900s. Socialism claims to be the workers ideology. What about the unemployeds ideology?

Unemployment is no higher today than it was before Thatcher took office and Privatised anything she could. Britain would have turned out differently had Callaghan won in 79, and to reverse reforms would be daft, but to state Socialism causes high unemployment is wrong.

Wozza · Dec 3, 2006

FletcherofSaltoun said:
Unemployment is no higher today than it was before Thatcher took office and Privatised anything she could.

Whoah, where did this one come from FoS?

It might be worth pointing out that Britain has compartively low unemployment now compared to the rest of Europe, and had high unemployment then. This is largely down to the labour market reforms introduced by Lady Thatcher.

Unless you think the closed shop was a means of stimulating employment.

Justin Pickard · Dec 3, 2006

Anarcho-syndicalism and Corporatism are the only two others that I think had a realistic hope of taking hold in C20th Europe, at the very least.

Fletch · Dec 3, 2006

Wozza said:
Whoah, where did this one come from FoS?

It might be worth pointing out that Britain has compartively low unemployment now compared to the rest of Europe, and had high unemployment then. This is largely down to the labour market reforms introduced by Lady Thatcher.

Unless you think the closed shop was a means of stimulating employment.

Unemployment peaked under Maggie.

Wozza · Dec 3, 2006

FletcherofSaltoun said:
Unemployment peaked under Maggie.

I never said it didn't. However you suggested that unemployment was currently higher than in the 70s due to MT's policies.

At-Bari · Dec 3, 2006

Nobody have mentioned environmentalism.

Fletch · Dec 3, 2006

Wozza said:
I never said it didn't. However you suggested that unemployment was currently higher than in the 70s due to MT's policies.

No I didnt. Thats putting words in my mouth. I said Britain would be different, (but not necesarally worse, or better off). Perhaps I should have clarified this. The reforms simply changed the type Britains economy, of that there is no doubt.

You on the other hand DID directly say there was high unemployment then. It was no higher than today. I feel I have proved this.

wozza said:
Britain has compartively low unemployment now compared to the rest of Europe, and had high unemployment then.

Strategos' Risk · Dec 3, 2006

FletcherofSaltoun said:
To the ideologies youve mentioned, I would add Democratic Socialism, such as was exhibited by the Atlee government in Britain.

Democratic Socialism isn't as widely unrealistic as Communism, nor nearly as violent and incompatible with Capitalism/Liberal Democracy. In fact, I'd say that Liberal Democracy can go either way.

Justin Pickard said:
Anarcho-syndicalism and Corporatism are the only two others that I think had a realistic hope of taking hold in C20th Europe, at the very least.

Yes, that's what I was thinking. But Anarcho-Syndicalism is a different flavor of Socialism from Communism, and Corporatism is Mussolini's brand of Fascism, right?

The only distinctly different sort of ideology I could think of is still Ian's hypothetical "Unionism", which is pretty much fascism merged with the conventions and style of communism, anyways.

Thande · Dec 3, 2006

This discussion has been had before, and the trouble is, people always suggest ideologies that take at least a paragraph to describe the details of.

To oversimplify, I think that a successful ideology must be something you can describe in just a few words, even as a rallying cry.

Fascism: "Might makes right!" (or) "Let's kill [ethnic group]!"

Communism: "Death to the aristocrats!" "Freedom for workers!" "Power to the people!"

Liberal democratic capitalism: "Vote for me!" "Let's make money!"

Having said that, I am working on an alternative ideology for a timeline. It basically replaces radical communism as an international solidarity rallying cry, while socialism remains more law-abiding and working within states, mainly due to having more receptive political consensus...es in said states.

Justin Pickard · Dec 3, 2006

There's also Synarchism from Shikaku-Mon in GURPS AE.

If Communism was based on Economics, and Fascism one the nastier end of Psychology, then Synarchism is Sociology or possibly Anthropology.

Strategos' Risk · Dec 3, 2006

Thande said:
To oversimplify, I think that a successful ideology must be something you can describe in just a few words, even as a rallying cry.

That sounds cool. We can try that sloganizing/reducing process for any ideology. Should I start another thread for that, or do it here?

Wendell · Dec 3, 2006

How about "Pan-Turanism" as a philosophy of states? Then again, I suppose it could be considered a form of Fascism.

Or, perhaps something one might call Kitaism could gain strength?

Max Sinister · Dec 3, 2006

Kataism also seems to include elements of other iedologies, only mixed. That seems to be the problem: All the ideologies are invented, you can only re-combine them.

Although, what about Technocracy?