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Old November 29th, 2006, 02:54 AM
King Thomas King Thomas is offline
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1920-Ku Klux Klan v Mafia...what happens?

In the early 1920's the KKK was at it's evil height...up to two or three million members, de facto control of at least a few states, plenty of thugs.

WI it got into a major fight with the Mafia gangs of the time?

What could cause this, and who would end up winning?
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Old November 29th, 2006, 02:55 AM
Count Dearborn Count Dearborn is offline
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The Mafia, because they had more money, more manpower, and more connections.
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Old November 29th, 2006, 03:09 AM
Hapsburg Hapsburg is online now
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What he said. Mafia had more guys, better and more weaponry...etc.
Though, the mafia would lose some guys. Thing is, at this time, the Mafia isn't exactly at its full height, i.e it is not unified yet under the Cosa Nostra, and the most refined and best version of the Thompson (M1927) is not yet out.
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Old November 29th, 2006, 03:49 AM
panzerjay panzerjay is offline
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with so much power via politics, the klan just bust up the mob with anti immigration laws
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  #5  
Old November 29th, 2006, 03:52 AM
MerryPrankster MerryPrankster is offline
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with so much power via politics, the klan just bust up the mob with anti immigration laws
The mob had political connections too.

The US might look something like Weimar Germany. Instead of Nazis, Commies, and even Social Democrats duking it out in the streets, you'd get mafiosi and KKK types instead.
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Old November 29th, 2006, 04:09 AM
panzerjay panzerjay is offline
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The mob had political connections too.

The US might look something like Weimar Germany. Instead of Nazis, Commies, and even Social Democrats duking it out in the streets, you'd get mafiosi and KKK types instead.
the klan had the south and midwest locked up. the mob, at best, got some enclaves in the northeast and chicago.

in the realm of public opinion, the people would favor the klan. the mob is basically a criminal gang with a profit motive. the klan is a terrorist organization that appeals to white supremacy and anti foreign loops in american history
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Old November 29th, 2006, 04:16 AM
MerryPrankster MerryPrankster is offline
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the klan had the south and midwest locked up. the mob, at best, got some enclaves in the northeast and chicago.

in the realm of public opinion, the people would favor the klan. the mob is basically a criminal gang with a profit motive. the klan is a terrorist organization that appeals to white supremacy and anti foreign loops in american history
The mafia probably has a lot more $$, and that would give them influence beyond their numbers and even beyond their territory.

Furthermore, there's the matter of skills to be handled. If the Mob decided that a powerful Klansman needed to die, could they get him on his home turf? If some Klansmen decided to kill a prominent mobster, could they get him on his home turf?
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Old November 29th, 2006, 04:37 AM
panzerjay panzerjay is offline
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Originally Posted by MerryPrankster View Post
The mafia probably has a lot more $$, and that would give them influence beyond their numbers and even beyond their territory.

Furthermore, there's the matter of skills to be handled. If the Mob decided that a powerful Klansman needed to die, could they get him on his home turf? If some Klansmen decided to kill a prominent mobster, could they get him on his home turf?
well, if there is a war what is prize? as said, both sides seem happy with their own sphere of influence. and both seemed peppered iwth greed, hate, and most improtant incompentence
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Old November 29th, 2006, 05:46 AM
Mr_ Bondoc Mr_ Bondoc is offline
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Here's a major problem!!

Unlike the Mafia, the Ku Klux Klan allegedly had people in the White House who were sympathetic to their cause:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notable...ional_politics

Among them, allegedly you had Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black, Harry Turman, Robert Byrd, Warren G. Harding, and Chief Justice Edward Douglass White as Klan members and/or supporters. Considering the Mafia, which was limited in power to only urban areas with large Italian-American and Jewish-American communities, the Mafia would be easily crushed...
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Old November 29th, 2006, 06:09 AM
NapoleonXIV NapoleonXIV is offline
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Al Capone, at least, was not the just a mob boss but a genius at PR and local politics, (to this day he is still well-regarded by many in Cicero). He was not typical of Mafiosa but he was not unusual in the higher echelons. The Klan were mostly backwoods farmers, even at the higher levels, who made up in violence and hate what they lacked in intelligence and sophistication.

Additionally the Mafia was known and recognized as a criminal organization (though an approved one because its main business was flouting a law most people disapproved of anyway.) The Klan, at least ostensibly, sold themselves as moralistic reformers.

The most powerful Klan was brought down by a sex scandal. The Mafia would have little problem exploiting this weakness. They would set up the Klan members with hookers and alcohol and then send in their personal cops and reporters.
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Old November 29th, 2006, 08:42 AM
Max Sinister Max Sinister is offline
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@Napoleon: Cicero? You mean Chicago?

The Klan has more men, many of them armed (this is the USA, after all), but of course the mafia could buy some more men.

And yes, that would make a kind of Weimar US. Very interesting, that's probably the most realistic scenario I can think of.
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Old November 29th, 2006, 08:48 AM
NapoleonXIV NapoleonXIV is offline
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@Napoleon: Cicero? You mean Chicago?

The Klan has more men, many of them armed (this is the USA, after all), but of course the mafia could buy some more men.

And yes, that would make a kind of Weimar US. Very interesting, that's probably the most realistic scenario I can think of.
Cicero is a suburb or borough or part of Chicago. I always heard that Al Capone was either from there or headquartered there and was liked by many there.
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Old November 29th, 2006, 08:51 AM
Hendryk Hendryk is offline
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Thing is, at this time, the Mafia isn't exactly at its full height, i.e it is not unified yet under the Cosa Nostra, and the most refined and best version of the Thompson (M1927) is not yet out.
From what I've read, the Thompson SMG didn't feature that prominently in the arsenals of 1920s organized crime; we tend to get that impression because it's a cinematic weapon and Hollywood loves gunfights that involve big badass full-automatic firearms. In fact the sawed-off shotgun was used much more frequently by mobsters; testimonies insist on the fact that it was a devastating weapon at short range.

Now, I wonder. The KKK wasn't just a terrorist movement, but a quasi-political organization. WI the Mafia decided that the best way to fight it was to move up from bribing officials to actually setting up a quasi-political organization of its own? One way to get there might be through mob-controlled labor unions.
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Old November 29th, 2006, 12:27 PM
HueyLong HueyLong is offline
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Thing is, there is no united mafia, and the KKK would have far more manpower against the "dagos".

The KKK did fight with Jewish gangsters, in Chicago, I do believe, and they busted up rumrunners in Indiana and Kentucky.
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  #15  
Old November 29th, 2006, 08:12 PM
EvolvedSaurian EvolvedSaurian is online now
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Thing is, there is no united mafia, and the KKK would have far more manpower against the "dagos".
It's not like the '20s era Klan is united either.

It's likely you'd see certain factions ally with each other, out of necessity. Mob bosses seeking Klan support against each other, etc.
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Old November 29th, 2006, 09:10 PM
Nosb Nosb is offline
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The KKK did fight with Jewish gangsters, in Chicago, I do believe, and they busted up rumrunners in Indiana and Kentucky.
Do you have any links to the jewish ganster/kkk Chicago fighting?
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Old November 29th, 2006, 10:45 PM
David bar Elias David bar Elias is offline
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Do you have any links to the jewish ganster/kkk Chicago fighting?
Well, Meyer Lansky's toughs all but ran William Dudley Pelley's Silver Shirts out of Minneapolis in the '30s, so it wouldn't be a surprise, in any case.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 11:54 PM
Count Dearborn Count Dearborn is offline
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Hey, Bondoc, Truman really was a member of the Klan. It was the only way that he could get into poltics. I even thing it was mentioned in the movie where Gary Sinise played Truman.
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Old December 5th, 2006, 02:57 AM
WhatIsAUserName WhatIsAUserName is offline
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It's not like the '20s era Klan is united either.

It's likely you'd see certain factions ally with each other, out of necessity. Mob bosses seeking Klan support against each other, etc.
The Klan was pretty much united. For one, they didn't have dozens of feuding families all at each others throats. And they had people elected that were open supporters of them; can anybody think of a Congressman who got elected by showing off his Mob credentials?

BTW, where would most of the fighting take place? I mean, I don't know any places that where hotbeds of both KKK and Mafia support.
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Old December 5th, 2006, 06:02 AM
Nosb Nosb is offline
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BTW, where would most of the fighting take place? I mean, I don't know any places that where hotbeds of both KKK and Mafia support.
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Well, Meyer Lansky's toughs all but ran William Dudley Pelley's Silver Shirts out of Minneapolis in the '30s, so it wouldn't be a surprise, in any case.
How's that for an answer?
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