The Netherlands in WWI

I was wondering what would have happened if the Netherlands were involved in the first world war.
The most likely reason for the Netherlands to get involved would be that the Germans used the original von Schliefenplan which also included The Netherlands.
Apparently (at least according to http://www.greatwar.nl/) Germany considered in 1916, 1917 and 1918 to occupy The Netherlands (it didn't because it needed the food that came from the Netherlands and it harbours).
If Germany had invaded the Netherlands I guess they would have been stopped by the water line, so the western part (Zeeland, Holland, Utrecht and parts of Brabant) would probably remain unoccupied (I think that this line would have been very hard to cross for an army of that age without paratroopers or an airforce), but the eastern part would probably be occupied. Would this have given the edge for the Germans to beat the French? According to the wikipedia article about the SchlieffenPlan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlieffen_Plan) The use of the dutch railway lines would have helped the Germans with supplies and The use of Dutch territory would have prevented a bottleneck at the German-Belgian border.
Or would it mean just another country for the germans to occupy and a longer front draining away more soldiers.

Another possibility for the Netherlands to join the great war would have been on Germanys side. A lot of Dutch were anti french or British. (Fance has been the main enemy for centuries, Britain the main rival who got the upper hand and had recently fought a war against the boers who were of Dutch descend) while there was a good relation with the Germans. The Dutch commander in chief tried to convince the dutch gouverment to join the Germans, maybe if the Germans offered Belgium or at least Flanders to the Dutch the government could be convinced to join the Germans. This would give the Germans the same advantages as the schlieffen plan through the Netherlands, but no need to occupy it and it even gets an extra army to fight the allies (although the quality of the army wasn't that good, it probably would be best to use it to occupy Belgium).

I was also wondering what would have happened at the peace talks. If the Netherlands would have joined Germany and lost the war it would probably lose all its colonies (Indonesia to the UK and Surinam and the antilles to the Uk and France) and the south of limburg and zeeland to Belgium (Belgium claimed them at the end of world war 1 any even though the Netherlands were neutral). If they won the war I guess the Netherlands would have gotten Flanders, Malaysia and perhaps the guyanas and some caribean islands (but only if the usa agrees, the Monroe doctrine could be a problem).
If The Netherlands was occupied by Germany and Germany loses the war, I don't think it will get any colonial gains, there are no German colonies near (except for New guinea , but i think the british will claim that). Perhaps it will get some German territories like Belgium got after the war, My guess it would be something like east Frisia, and something like cleve or the German parts of Guelders or Gulick/julich.

What do you think?

Hmm. I think the most interesting option (from our AHer point of view) with regard to long - term effects would be the Dutch joining the Central Powers, those still loosing the war as in OTL, but with most of the Dutch East Indies (in particular the Palembang oil fields) going to Japan after the war. Which i'd consider quite possible, since Holland on the side of the Central Powers will mean that British strengh will be tied up even more than OTL on the Western Front.
A Japan with sufficient "domestic" oil production for it's needs would change everything in the Asian theater later on.

The Germans would advance faster (German-Belgian border is pretty short, so they should be able to move more troops to the west in the same time). Hard to tell how much resistance the Dutch could put against them. (How many divisions did they have?) In the long run, they'd be disadvantaged, because of additional Dutch troops and, as you said, Germany can't get food from there. So if they can't overwhelm the western Allies until winter, they're screwed.

Max Sinister said:

The Germans would advance faster (German-Belgian border is pretty short, so they should be able to move more troops to the west in the same time). Hard to tell how much resistance the Dutch could put against them. (How many divisions did they have?) In the long run, they'd be disadvantaged, because of additional Dutch troops and, as you said, Germany can't get food from there. So if they can't overwhelm the western Allies until winter, they're screwed.

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All true.

If the war against the Netherlands means success at Schlieffen, quick victory. If not, the war would start pretty much as OTL, with a longer German front, stronger allies, less supply for Germany, thus a quicker defeat.

After the war, I would exept a mutual protection pact of Belgium, France and the Netherlands against the Germans, making a new war more difficult.

Didn't Queen Wilhemina threaten to open the dikes if the Germans invaded?

Imperator said:

Didn't Queen Wilhemina threaten to open the dikes if the Germans invaded?

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Yes, she said to wilhelm II when he told her that the German soldiers where 2 meters high, that when you open the dikes the water would be 2.5 meters high.
That is what i meaned by the waterline, by opening the dikes they would flood a area between the zuiderzee and zeeland protecting Holland, Utrecht and parts of Brabant.

Looking frwards, if the Dutch open the Dykes to defend against the Germans, then the reparations that will be imposed on Germany will be much more onerous than OTL, and the Dutch will push hard to maintain them.

Wilhelm's handy escape is butteflied out of existence, then...

Nek said:

Wilhelm's handy escape is butteflied out of existence, then...

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Sweden is still open, so he probably ends up there like a few other prominent members of the Kaiserreich did.

What was the Dutch navy like at this time? Might it help provide a better counterweight to the Royal Navy?

the point with the dutch railway lines is that it only works for 1914. during the years og german occupation, enough railways were constructed in belgium to supply the german army even in times when there were offensives.
but invading the netherlands in 1914 would have cut off germany from the hitherto neutral dutch harbors from which they got a lot of goods to keep their war machinery running.
so, a long-lasting war would have been harder to win for the germans than in OTL--> consequence: the schlieffenplan had to be executed as planned that was - as historians say (see gerhard ritter: death of a myth or sebastian haffner: the 7 sins of the german empire in ww1)- unlikely to succeed.

When looking around the internet i found out that the Dutch Army consisted of 4 divisions, I can't find any information about the size of its navy. (i can find only sites about the dutch navy during world war 2)

Well, with the Netherlands now involved in WWI as an allied power, surely the Dutch could loose their dykes on the Germans too to make life uncomfortable for von Kluck and Bulow ?

Also, could the Dutch have brought in their KNIL auxiliaries from the east Indies to fight the Germans in the trenches, just as the French employed thier North Africans and Senegalese ?

The Germans wouldn't worry if they can't take Amsterdam - their aim is Paris. In fact, if the Germans attack, and the Dutch army doesn't fight them, but breaks the dikes and hides behind the new sea, Germany needs less soldiers to occupy and fight the Dutch, and can turn on the French. Difficult to say how that'd turn out - they might reach Paris, they could even encircle it (IOTL the plan was changed - instead of going west around Paris, they went east), but that still doesn't mean they would automatically win.

If Holland joined Germany's side the Allies finally have a REAL bribe for Japan in the form of the Dutch East Indies. If Japan sends 100,000 men then the Allies might wind up better off than before. Holland, of course, will be only too aware of this...

What I think is an interesting question is:
If they join the Central Powers and the CP's win, what would the Netherlands get out of it?
Probably some part of Belgium, if not all of it. Some colonial territory for sure, but what? The rest of Guyana? British West Indies?

I am not certain Japan would get the Dutch east Indies, I think the UK would want it, it was one of the best colonies to have. Or perhaps it would be devided among the allies, the Uk and France getting the best parts, Portugal west Timor (and perhaps some small islands near it) and if Japan was lucky they would get some scraps.

The colonies the Dutch would get if they joined a winning central powers would probably be malaysia, perhaps brittish new guinea (germany could also claim it), the Guyanas and saint martin (but they could get in conflict with the us and its monroe doctrine).
I also think they would only claim the Flemish parts of Belgium, i don't think they would want a large French speaking minority. Perhaps the Walloon part of Belgium would go to France as compensation for what ever part Germant claims from France (with the possible exception of the luxembourg province (of Belgium), Germany might claim that too when they annex the country Luxembourg)?

If the Allies lose, I reckon the Germans would just set up Wallonia as its own state, a buffer between them and a vengeful France (after all, the Ardennes would have to be traversed in the event of any attack on Germany-granted, I know what happened in WW2). Maybe they'd even throw in Lille and a strip of Champagne. Elsewhere, the French Nord-Pas de Calais would lose Dunkirk and Kassel and all land in between to the new expanded Netherlands.

If the Allies win- well, Belgium gets Limburg as far as Venlo, Eindhoven and the north-bank of the Scheldt. This is a ticking timebomb for Belgium in the event of a second war. The Netherlandophone population of Belgium is increased by around 1.5 million people, which is going to up ethnic tension and strengthen both Flamingant and Rexist movements, and create a bitter Revanchist movement in the Netherlands.

Chengar Qordath said:

Sweden is still open, so he probably ends up there like a few other prominent members of the Kaiserreich did.

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Who went to Sweden? I thought Wilhelm and the crown prince were the only ones exiled, and the prince for just a short period. Also, was Wilhelm prohibited from returning to Germany or chose not to?

New Yorker said:

Who went to Sweden? I thought Wilhelm and the crown prince were the only ones exiled, and the prince for just a short period. Also, was Wilhelm prohibited from returning to Germany or chose not to?

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Ludendorff fled to Sweden after the war was over, but he eventually came back and joined the Nazis for a while, eventually leaving because he considered them to be too moderate.