Additional PODs for the Chaos TL

A while ago someone suggested the concept of double PODs / WIs: You take an existing ATL, choose one point after its POD, and introduce another POD at that time. We already have some examples, like the double TL of "The Coronation of the Hun" and "Flee! Flee! They're crowning the Hun". I thought I'd introduce that concept to that TL I'm pushing everywhere...

So, here are some POD for the Chaos TL. I'll update the list from time to time. Feel free to discuss, and start your own TLs with them.

[post=535354]Central Asia 1200-40[/post]

- Temujin dies even earlier
His sons are even younger and the steppe peoples even less united

- Instead of Ogadai, another son of Temujin survives
Ogadai was the most talented of Genghis' sons IOTL. Would whomever be as able to lead the hordes instead?

- Some "Dog of war" decides to lead the people instead of one of Temujin's sons
If he can defeat his rivals, the Mongols may restart their conquests earlier - probably less successful than OTL, but still better than in the Chaos TL

- Ogadai is less successful than I thought, loses against the Merkites / Keraites / Naimans / Uighurs / Kara-Kitai.
Which makes him and maybe the Mongols too a footnote in history.

- Jalal-ad-Din doesn't manage to hold the Choresmian empire together
It breaks apart, which gives the Mongols a chance for expansion into Central Asia.

- Choresm doesn't take Baghdad
The Caliph was already lucky once, why not twice?

[post=546902]East Asia 1200-60[/post]

- Jin China doesn't conquer the Tangutes
Could well be. So China stays split into not two, but three states, until the Black Death makes things interesting.

- Jin China makes another war with Song China
I'd bet on the Jin in that case.

- Song China manages to pull some necessary reforms
Could that bring the infamous Chinese Industrial Revolution?

[post=541336]The Middle East 1200-60[/post]

- Rum-Seljuks attack Nikaia earlier
It's not impossible... Nikaia might become a Seljuk tributary, and Constantinople could fall before 1300.

- Zangid states in Northern Iraq fall to the Rum-Seljuks instead of Choresm
Which gives the former a better chance to conquer Syria later.

- The Mamluks don't take power in Egypt
Could well be. IOTL the Choresmians rampaged through the Middle East, so the Egyptian sultans had to get more mamluk slave soldiers, who became too mighty... The conquest of Jerusalem could also be prevented, since the sultan doesn't have to think about what to do with those soldiers.

[post=553123]Eastern Europe, 1200-1250[/post]

- Volga Hungarians stay in Russia
So Hungary stays weaker. Either Bela IV invites the Kumans to Hungary as OTL, or Hungary really loses badly against Otakar Przemysl, Serbia, Bulgaria and later the Muslims.

- Alexander Nevsky takes power in one Russian princedom
Difficult to predict. Of course it'd be interesting to see what a man with his talents could do being king.

- Bela IV defeats Ottokar Przemysl
And we get Hungary-Austria.

[post=556899]Western Europe, 1240-1300[/post]

- Prince Vladislav of Bohemia has no son, so when he dies, Otakar Przemysl owns all of Bohemia. Problem: As IOTL, not everyone's going to like it if he has too much power. But that's too similar to OTL... maybe Vladislav lives even longer, and fights his brother? Or the nobles rebel against of or both of them, as they did against their father.

- Heinrich / Henryk II the Pious of Silesia isn't crowned king of Poland. The country stays longer disunited - while the Teutonic Order is growing stronger...

- Lithuania resists against the Teutonic knights. This could lead to a similar situation as OTL - Lithuania and Poland as natural allies... or not?

- The planned crusade in 1260 isn't postponed. This could have great implications on the situation in Southern Europe... the Staufer heir Konradin could live longer, maybe stabilize his power; king Louis IX of France or Charles de Anjou could die in the Holy Land, or Tunisia, if Charles again diverts the crusade (less probable, if he hasn't the stepstone of Sicily). Or maybe they even have success...


[post=564218]Middle East, 1260-1300[/post]

- Rum-Seljuks, not being weakened by the Mongols, don't let Nikaia rest, but knock them down ASAP.

- OTOH, Nikaia could be more successful. A lot depends whether they can take Constantinople back or not - in both 1204 and 1261, the attackers were lucky.

- Crusader states survive as long as IOTL, or even longer: Could also be, if Choresm isn't destroyed and there are no dangerous Choresmian mercs who need to be preoccupied with, let's say, fighting the Franks.


[post=568994]East Asia, 1260-1300[/post]

- Would Song China have to face trouble with Pagan? Attacking the Mongols is one thing, attacking the peaceful, sophisticated Song another.

- How long could the Choi / Choe family hold power behind the throne in Goryeo. And more important, who can tell whether it'd make a difference?


[post=572585]Eastern Europe, 1250-1300[/post]

Here we have lots of possible PODs concerning the various little wars between Russian princedoms. Since I didn't sketch out the details, there isn't even a way to make PODs from TTL...

Otherwise, on the Balkan the balance of the powers (Hungary, Serbia, Bulgaria, Byzantium) could look very different too.

[post=581852]Middle East, 1300-50[/post]

- 1302: Seljuks don't manage to cross the Bosphorus
Maybe Constantinople's last chance to survive. Since the Seljuk empire didn't fall apart, they had a stronger opponent than the Ottomans from the beginning.

- 1327: Constantinople doesn't fall to the Seljuks.
So the Renaissance / Rinascita in Western Europe might happen later.

- 1334: The war between Choresm and Mamluk Egypt ends with a different outcome.
Maybe Choresm is more successful and takes all of Palestine.

- 1348: Empire of the Rum-Seljuks isn't divided.
So they might conquer an even bigger part of Europe. Or expand in Asia.

[post=584998]Western Europe, 1300-50[/post]

- The First Aquitaine War (beginning in 1341) could see many different battles of course. Most interesting, maybe: WI the English lose a sea battle and can't transport their troops to France / Brittany?

- 1331: Holstein and Holland-Zeeland-Hennegau aren't united, thus never creating a great power on the German Sea.

[post=589205]Central Europe, 1300-50[/post]

- 1301-08: Poland wins against the coaltition of the Przemyslids, the HRE and the Teutonic Order.

- Ottokar of Bavaria defeated by Waldemar of Brandenburg.
Difficult to see what'd happen - but certainly ITTL Brandenburg can claim Pomerania, which they never could ITTL.

- 1336: The Przemyslids never exchange their lands, so both lines have both German- and Czech-speaking lands.
If they're later reunited, the Czechs won't feel estranged from their "German" ruler.

- 1313: Poland can't put its hands on Mazovia
So the complete unification happens later - or Mazovia even falls under Teutonic dominance.

[post=592215]East Asia, 1300-50[/post]

- Instead of Song China, Jin falls apart first.
Who makes the second-last mistake, wins...

- Song China falls apart not into four, but two, three, five, or twelve states.
And another dynasty will reign China for the next few hundred years. Consequences? Ask Hendryk...

[post=598522]Islamic World, 1350-1400[/post]

- Hungary defeats the Seljuks, probably with the help of other European countries.
Maybe they can contain the Seljuks in the area south of the Danube.

- Arik-Buqa doesn't only destroy parts of Choresm, but the whole empire (doing the work that Genghis did IOTL) - or conquers it, to form his power base...

- The two Seljuk states stay disunited, maybe because the sultan of Konya isn't assassinated

- Choresm does better in the war, conquering all of Palestine, or even more

[post=602431]Central Europe, 1350-1400[/post]

- Hungarians elect another prince to be their king
So Hungary can make some ties to another country - maybe even a strong power, which can help them against the Seljuks?

- Swiss and/or South German cities do worse, leaving the German princes (esp. the Habsburgs) even stronger

- Beggars in Italy overwhelm even more republics - maybe even Florence?
This would butterfly away the whole rise of Florence ITTL, and change the way of Italian unification

- Uprisings in Bohemia are defeated - if the Przemyslid ruler can get help from other powers, or is more capable.

[post=606029]Northern and Western Europe, 1350-1400[/post]

- Prince Harald doesn't discover America
Which leads to too many changes to be mentioned.

- Kings of Denmark can stand against the Hanseatic League and Sweden
So Denmark later ITTL keeps control over the Sund, receiving lots of money from the Sund toll... But then again, prince Harald's journey might be butterflied away...

- It isn't that probable... but WI king Jean of France (who's toppled by his wife) gives half the royal lands away to his younger sons?

- Castille doesn't conquer Granada
And after the Black Death, they'll lack the people to resettle it - so Granada might live until after 1500. At this time, America/Atlantis will be well known... might they even participate?

[post=613064]Eastern Europe, 1350-1400[/post]

- Teutonic Order loses against Russian princedoms, leaving the border between Catholics and Orthodox further in the west

- The western and southern states don't make Vladimir V Rostislavich of Kiev their leader, leaving the South more divided - and thus, weaker against possible enemies inside and outside of Russia.

[post=608777]East Asia, 1350-1400[/post]

- Instead of Hong, another power wins in the South of China. If the three other states there ally against Hong, they could win and divide it, before fighting each other.

- Or South China stays divided, eventually becoming a target for a recovering Jin Empire.

- Hong emperor doesn't decide to conquer the lands south of China, or take the Jin Empire.

[post=620449]Central Europe 1400-50[/post]

- Maffeo Servitore is butterflied away
And so is his plan to divide Northern Italy between Savoy, Venice and Florence. With severe implications, since a disunited Italy could easily fall to an enemy - like the Rum-Seljuks.

- The Roman Catholic Church doesn't reform
So flagellants and other movements become stronger and might even take the one or other European state, as already happened in Utrecht, Parma and Bohemia

- Teutonic Order wins against Poland and Sweden, keeping more influence in Eastern Central Europe.

- Nobles defeat Switzerland and Swabian cities, pushing the republicans back to OTL Switzerland

[post=623620]Middle East 1400-1450[/post]

- Rum-Seljuks decide to attack Hungary first

- Rum-Seljuks are stopped by the French, maybe in alliance with Hungary; Italy stays Christian

- Rum-Seljuks don't expand South to Palestine or Hejaz

- When the Seljuk sultan claims to be the righteous Caliph, other Muslim powers might start war against him

[post=628286]Western / Northern Europe and Atlantis 1400-50[/post]

- Richard III doesn't attack France (maybe because he decides to join them fighting the Seljuks)
Of course, France might still decide to reconquer the south-west.

- Different pattern of colonization in Atlantis
Scottish Florida? Breton Boston?? Basque Virginia???

- Robert of Scotland is successful in becoming new king of Scotland-Norway
But maybe his subjects don't like him having played foul, and will depose him and start a republic...

- Portugal revolts successfully against Castille
So, there'll never be a Triple Monarchy of England-Castille-Portugal, and all bets about alliances there are off.

[post=636311]East Asia 1400-50[/post]

- Deccan stays part of Delhi sultanate
With the Muslim power undivided, the Hindu powers might be in trouble

- Hong China is less successful (or ambitious) to expand its influence in SE Asia

- Hong China goes as far as South Africa, starting a colony there
We are lacking TLs with a Chinese South Africa...

- Hong China is more interested in Australia

[post=640830]Eastern Europe 1400-50[/post]

- Vladimir-Suzdal wins the war for spiritual dominance
And again, the Russian lands are lead from the North, not the South. Just like OTL.

- Poland loses against Smolensk, which might be supported by Vladimir.

- Kiev loses against Hungary
This POD, just like the last one, could be the result of Vladimir defeating Kiev, of course.

Max Sinister said:

- Instead of Ogadai, another son of Temujin survives
Ogadai was the most talented of Genghis' sons IOTL. Would whomever be as able to lead the hordes instead?

Click to expand...

Actually, it has been revealed that Ogodei wasn't that competent, but he had spectacular generals (Subodei comes to mind). Ogodei cared more about maintaing the Empires wealth, with a secondary objective of conquest.

Could be. But note that I wrote "most competent". If Chagadai or Jochi had lead the Mongols instead, I guess they'd have been less successful than IOTL.

Well, he was chosen so that the Empire wouldn't fall apart, not because he was the best. So yeah, he was for the best, but he wasn't necessarily the best leader.

[post=644528]Islamic World, 1450-1500[/post]

- Seljuks don't make Egypt a tributary, or the Egyptians defend themselves luckily.
So the Seljuk empire is somewhat weaker in future, and has to fear a Persian-Egypt alliance.

- Aragon doesn't attack Seljuk Italy
Maybe smarter to do so, without any allies... if the Seljuks want Sicily, they have to attack first

- European powers (Castille, France, Hungary, Aragon, Naples) ally against the Seljuks instead being conquered one after another

- Europeans can prevent Rome being conquered
So the pope can stay there or return later, at least.

[post=648507]Western / Northern Europe and Atlantis 1450-1500[/post]

- 1453: Castille can't impose its rule in Portugal again
...and another player enters the colonial race for Atlantis.

- 1455-60: King Louis wins the French Civil War, or gets rid of his brother by more discrete means
This might accelerate French unification/centralization. Absolutism even earlier?

- 1477-83: England can prevail in Aquitaine, maybe with Spanish help
I don't expect that France would disappear from the map in that case, but it'd be weaker for sure. And England becomes more French OTOH...

- 1497: Pedro IV of Spain has a heir, Castille-Portugal isn't united with England-Scotland.
In that case, France would be even stronger, without the Quadruple (and later Triple) monarchy as a counterweight.

And of course there are many other possible PODs concerning "who gets which part of Atlantis?".

[post=652913]Central Europe 1450-1500[/post]

- 1456-69: The German princes use the Swiss Civil War to get a piece of them.
And the republican idea would suffer and not make an interesting alternative.

- 1472-76: Poland defeats the Bohemian theocracy, and makes the latter its satellite
This might Poland give more influence if they decided to join the HRE.

- 1475: The Twenty-Year War doesn't break out in Germany, maybe because the king lets the clerical territories live on.
Secularization could still happen, maybe as early as one century later, but even that could change things.

- 1477: Florence stays a republic - maybe even the millenialists take power?
And what'd later become a world power ITTL, looks completely different.

- 1493: Karl Koch's republic of the Rhine has surprisingly more success, survives
Later it might become the core of a second republic in Germany.

[post=656664]Eastern Europe 1450-1500[/post]

- Vladimir-Suzdal defeated by Novgorod
And Siberia goes (at least partly - at least for some time...) to another player.

- The settlement of OTL Siberia takes a different form
Maybe the Grand Prince has more control over his new provinces, or his vassals instead. In both cases, it's at the expense of the subjects.

- Vladimir-Suzdal defeated by Kiev and Chernigov
Again: Someone else gets Siberia as prize

[post=661637]East Asia 1450-1500[/post]

- They already reached Egypt, and the distance Suez-Port Said isn't big.
WI they made the last step and took a look on Europe? Even if it wouldn't be that interesting for the Chinese - the Europeans would be very interested.

- Seljuk-Hong War extends to the Holy Cities of Islam
Pagans in Mecca or Medina?!

- Seljuk-Hong War ends with a different peace
The Hong preferred if the Arabs paid them a tribute. WI they had demanded even more, like accepting the troops of the Son of Heaven as occupiers?

- Seljuk-Hong War won by the Muslims
And the tables would be turned... unless, of course, the Hong emperors decided to strike back with an even stronger fleet.

[post=677054]Atlantis 1500-50[/post]

- French meet the Mayas before the Castillians do
So the Mayas could do better, similar to the Aztecs of TTL.

- Prince Alasdair dies in Atlantis, or on his way to it
And one of the most fascinating personalities of TTL is removed. Not to mention the implications for Europe and Atlantis.

- The Caribbean islands are divided in a different way
Too many possibilities to mention. But one thing is sure: The more islands, the more sugar, the more money.

- The Quadruple monarchy conquers Tenochtitlan
Very similar to OTL, which is why I avoided it.

[post=670447]Muslim World 1500-50[/post]

- Pashtun dynasty doesn't come to power in Persia
AFAIK the Shiites weren't as much into conquering great empires, due to their millenialist belief. Instead, they either tended to quietism - or uprisings, if they felt suppressed.

- The duchy of Florence is conquered
And then, I can't see how the Christians can avoid a conquest of Savoy and Venice too.

- Or the opposite: Florence manages to keep Rome, or even Naples and the Marches.
So the united Italy may become reality even earlier. OTOH, not everyone would like that.

- No Seljuk-Persian War
The two greatest Muslim powers wasted a lot of their strength in this. Avoid the war, and the Seljuks could manage more conquests in Germany and Italy.

[post=680355]Western / Northern Europe 1500-50[/post]

- No cesaropapism in the Quadruple Monarchy
So instead of the multiple changes of TTL (church property expropriated, the Great Occidental schism and the war it lead to), things stay the same for some more years, more or less.

- France loses the Great Occidental War
Aquitaine would probably change its owner (again), and the Quadruple Monarchy would stay supreme in the New World, if not the Old one.

- Scandinavia isn't united - or stays united longer
Difficult to say what happens, but it might become important for Russia too.

- The Quadruple Monarchy falls apart
It happens ITTL anyway, and in fact, I wonder how long the British-Iberian union could last at all. The empire of Charles V Habsburg only lasted as long as he reigned, too, after all.

[post=674109]Central Europe 1500-50[/post]

- 1511: Francis not elected first French HREmperor.
Instead, he'd try to increase France's power. In Italy, maybe? And would France lose against the Quadruple Monarchy?

- 1522: Prussia doesn't join the HRE
So the Teutonic Order's state might fall to its ambitious neighbors Poland and Scandinavia, similar to OTL.

- Ottokar III of Carinthia has a son
And the Przemyslid dynasty of Carinthia and Silesia stays another player on the chessboard of the HRE.

- 1545: Johann von Hohenzollern doesn't defeat the Gottesfreistaat Würzburg
And Pomerania goes to someone else (Brandenburg probably, or maybe Sweden), and the Hohenzollern go the way of the Habsburgs.

[post=683537]Eastern Europe 1500-50[/post]

- Novgorod defends itself successfully
Maybe they even can get a piece of Siberia. Vladimir-Suzdal would still get the lion's share, but things would be less one-sided there.

- Smolensk is conquered back
And the Western Europeans would have to worry not only about the Seljuks, but also the Orthodox, sooner or later.

- Kiev-Chernigov defeats Vladimir-Suzdal
Again: Things become less one-sided in the Russian lands.

- The Grand Prince of Vladimir helps his Novorussian subjects
No republic of Novorossiya later, and more power for the northern Czar.

[post=686681]East Asia 1500-50[/post]

- China doesn't send settlers to the islands
And as OTL, Taiwan and the Philippines stay un-influenced by them.

- Russians aren't allowed to trade with China
And the country loses its ally and admiror.

[post=689077]Middle East 1550-1600[/post]

- Seljuks do better against England-Castille-Portugal.
If they f.e. win the sea battle of Malta, they could at least keep Sicily.

- Seljuks don't introduce the printing press
Hard to tell - I already decided it'd be an advantage, but OTOH they still have all the major powers of Europe against them.

- Seljuks win against France and their allies
And Rome becomes Seljuk again - this time, forever?

- One of the two strongest powers allies with the Seljuks
Which changes everything, again. However, I doubt any ruler would risk cooperating with the defilers of Rome.

[post=691871]Western / Northern Europe, 1550-1600[/post]

- Scottish king Alasdair doesn't become king of Denmark
So Scandinavia isn't united - atl east, not by him.

- Occidental Church lives on
No council of Ghent, western Christianity stays divided - with interesting consequences

- England-Castille-Portugal and France clash over Aragon
So the Great Occidental War repeats itself - and the Seljuks could use the opportunity to expand again.

- After the death of king Alasdair of Scotland, Ireland, Scandinavia and Poland, his empire isn't divided
Questionable. Poland is an elective monarchy, they wouldn't elect anyone, esp. since Alasdair was king only a few years. And it's also questionable whether a non-exceptional king could keep such an empire together.

[post=695150]Rest of the world, 16th century[/post]

- Scandinavians never settle South Africa
And the question emerges: Who else'll get it?

[post=697220]Atlantis, 1550-1600[/post]

- Different division of Atlantis
There's still a lot of land unclaimed. French Texas, or Brazil, anyone?

- Aztec/Inca empire collapses completely because of diseases
Similar as OTL. Sad and somehow boring.

- Aztec/Inca empire has a "takeover" by their French "advisors"
Ditto.

- England-Castille-Portugal and France keep the smaller powers out
So the Caribbean is divided between them, and maybe even Italia Nuova (OTL Virginia) and other smaller colonies fall to them instead.

[post=699863]Central Europe, 1550-1600[/post]

- Dutch don't introduce Puritanism
So after being replaced in the Atlantis trade, they look for other markets... but where?

- Gottesfreistaat Münster conquered earlier
Would've happened anyway, but now the Ruhr area belongs to someone else - the Dutch maybe, or Braunschweig with its Atlantean colonies?

- Bohemian theocracy survives
More probable, since the country has its own culture and is stronger than Münster.

- Florence doesn't introduce Matthewism (TTL'S equivalent to Calvinism)
This might hurt their economy, and Florence doesn't become the core of later Italy.

[post=704226]Eastern Europe, 1550-1600[/post]

- Dvoryans don't conquer half of OTL Ukraine
So the democratic idea is a bit weaker in South Russia.

- Russians don't embrace Chinese culture and ideas
Which prevents the development from TTL, and such useful ideas as Confucius' teachings about the state, or electricity.

- Chinese emperor doesn't allow Russian traders
Which could also lead to the aforementioned POD.

- Russians don't discover Alaska
Quite improbable, since the chances are even better than OTL

[post=707031]East Asia, 1550-1600[/post]

- Japanese (or any Asians) decide to settle Australia
And successfully prevent this continent to be settled by whites, as Atlantis/America already was

- Chinese confront the Muslims in Bengal, Indian Ocean
So maybe the Hong Empire grows even further, instead of stagnating.

- Persia doesn't conquer Delhi
And the Seljuks stay the strongest Muslim power.

[post=713830]Western / Northern Europe 1600-50[/post]

- Sweden defeated by Denmark-Norway
And its rise to power is nipped in the bud.

- Francois IV doesn't succeed
France doesn't become absolutist - and misses a chance to expand its power

- Kristian of Denmark has a heir
And Denmark isn't united with Braunschweig. Especially interesting for their colonies.

- Henry VI can defeat his opponents
And the Plantagenets reign on.

- Cliffords win the English Civil War
Unclear. Although a real noble family, at this time their history is already completely fictitious. Only point I can think of: Stafford City (OTL Recife) would be called Clifford City instead

- Morocco and Spain stay separated
A Spanish kingdom against a republic of the Cortes in Morocco?

[post=716071]Middle East 1600-50[/post]

- Seljuks get an even harsher peace in 1604 (maybe after a longer war)
So they lose Transsylvania too, or all of Southern Italy

- Seljuks win the second French-Seljuk War
And except for Algeria and Tunis, they win what they lost in the last war

- Arabs can get a hold in India
So while they lose power in the west, they can make it up somewhere else

[post=718403]Atlantis 1600-50[/post]

- England doesn't grab the colonies of Poland and Florence
So they don't piss off possible future allies.

- English fleet defeats Spaniards
England keeps Jamaica, or even takes more Caribbean islands - and thus, the lucrative sugar.

- Dissenter's revolt in New England crushed
Either that, or Denmark-Braunschweig doesn't decide to invade. So this area doesn't become German-speaking later.

[post=722244]Eastern Europe 1600-50[/post]

- Poland can fight off Vladimir-Suzdal
And the revolution might not be restricted to Siberia.

- Novorossiya doesn't gain independence
And the Czar of Vladimir-Suzdal still rules the biggest empire on Earth. Would he go to Atlantis? Or challenge China?

- Novorossiya doesn't take Ezo
And the Japanese get it as IOTL. Not that interesting.

- Novorossiya doesn't claim Alyeska
In this case I believe, that would be only temporary.

- Novorossiya doesn't ally with Hong
Even if there's no war between them and China, the Chinese could consider them too barbarian or too dangerous.

[post=724944]Central Europe 1600-50[/post]

- German peasant uprisings are more successful
ITTL, there were some successful revolts in Münster and Würzburg.

- Swiss can fight off the French in the Swiss-Savoy War
The French plan to build a powerbase around the Alps doesn't work - and the Swiss could take Milan.

- Poland doesn't join the HRE
Could they defend against Russia all alone?

- Seceding Sicily is conquered
Either the French (with claims dating back to Charles de Anjou) or the Seljuks would be possible.

[post=728020]East Asia 1600-50[/post]

- China takes Japanese piracy as an excuse to occupy the country
Not that probable, but by this way the country might open again.

- Japan defeats the Russians on Ezo
They'd need Chinese support at this time for that. But if the emperor decides to support fellow East Asians against Europeans, it would work.

- Other European nations come to India, China and so on
Whoever that'd be, they could make a fortune there.

- Indians start to import Chinese ideas
Radically modernizing the country and changing it in too many ways to be mentioned

[post=734070]The world, 1650-75[/post]

East Asia

- Hong stay in Thailand
So their prestige wouldn't suffer as much, and maybe they could even rebuild it

- Hong defeat Johor pirates
Again, their dynasty could survive longer

- Khmer are pushed down
Or China uses the opportunity to play its vassals out against each other.


Russian lands

- Novorossiya attacks in the west instead
Would be quite daring to attack Vladimir-Suzdal again. Like OTL war of 1812

- Novorossiya attacks Choresm instead
Another possibility. It's quite open who would win.

- Vladimir tries to reconquer Novorossiya
Probably they'd lose to general winter again, but one can never be sure.


Atlantis

- "Atlantean Coalition" loses against England
New England returns to, well, England, and Florence could lose its last possessions in the Caribbean.

- Novorossiya makes war with Spain
Maybe we get a Russian Mexico... somethign really new...

- Incas make war with Spain
This could be the first time that a native Atlantean civilization defeats Europeans. With interesting consequences imaginable.


Muslim World

- Seljuks defeat Russians
Maybe they could hold out in OTL Ukraine this time. Of course, that might also lead to a pan-Russian alliance.

- Florence and Venice are supported by France
Yet another way to strengthen French influence in Italy.

- Third French-Seljuk War avoided
So the Seljuks get some breathing space, which they can need.


Central Europe

- Because of the Reichsdeputationshauptbeschluss, war breaks out
The anti-French coalition isn't ready for a really big war - Francois IV could make half of Germany under his control

- Luxembourg survives
Francois IV might find something else to conquer - Aragon, frex.

- Florence makes a dynastical marriage with someone else
If Florence (with all of Central Italy) becomes a French opuppet, this could tip the balance in the other way too.


Western Europe

- England doesn't conquer Ireland back, or France decides to interfere
Now if Francois IV loses... that'll give Humphrey I even more glory.

- Francisco stays official Spanish heir
I decided he was less competent than his younger brother. However, this doesn't have to hold true for all their successors.

- Queen Kristina marries someone else
Sweden and the Netherlands are both enemies of France (and Denmark) anyway. Who could join the alliance?

[post=737469]The world, 1675-1700[/post]

Western Europe
- Danes win battle of Bornholm
Sweden can't interfere in Germany and Poland, and Mecklenburg is conquered by Denmark.

- French win Battle of Roussilon
Spaniards don't enter French territory; war drags on even longer

- Portuguese win Battle of Valladolid
Less likely, but still, maybe with French help.

- Peace of Amsterdam lets the smaller nations live
Portugal and/or Scotland stay around longer.

Central Europe
- Francois V elected HREmperor
Probably in that case the war would start too. But it might give him a small advantage.

- Baltic League falls apart
Sweden and Prussia could easily divide over Franconia-Pomerania and Brandenburg-Silesia.

- French win Battle of Jülich
So they'd control all the Rhineland, and maybe annex Jülich-Berg

- Polish king defeats rebels in Battle of Lublin
This would leave a small chance that France and its eastern Allies could crush their opponents in Germany.

- No Hohenzollern heir is found
Franconia-Pomerania divided between the other victorious German powers. The emperor might even decide to keep it for himself.

Atlantis
- French conquer Kingsburgh (OTL Montreal)
This might lead to their victory in North Atlantis, and the British colonies are divided between France and Braunschweig-Denmark.

- Mexico wins Battle of Metztitlan
And their state may survive some more time - which could be enough to stay around until present.

- The core of France's colonial empire doesn't go to Braunschweig-Denmark
A very important change, because it prevents the formation of a strong German state in the long term. The question is, who'll fill the place? England, Italy, or could we even get a lot of native states as a buffer zone?

East Asia
- Nipponese piracy extended to SE Asia
Which would anger the Chinese, and also the arriving european powers.

- China enters Javan War
Again, this would prolong their reign and the Pax Sinica a bit, but doesn't solve all their problems.

- Hong Emperor decides to give Ezo to Nippon
Novorossiya isn't ready to make war against both China and Nippon... or are they?

Russian lands
- Vladimir-Suzdal doesn't enter the anti-French War
Instead, Russia stands more aloof. Unlikely, the situation is promising.

- Novorossiya doesn't conquer Jurchen / Nuzhen / Merkites
Maybe not that important, but they'll stay a bit weaker

- Vladimir-Suzdal pays back its debt to Novorossiya, or simply decide not to cede NE Russia
Either the rise of Novorossiya is delayed, or there'll be another brother war in Russia.

Muslim World
- Seljuks stay out of the anti-French War
We might need a diversion for that. Maybe South Russia attacks them instead?

- Seljuks use the opportunity on the Balcan to attack
So, they get Serbia or even Bosnia back from Hungary

- Venice, France and Hungary strike in Greece
Which would give them an opportunity to confuse the Seljuks, and maybe kick them out of the war

[post=745359]The world, 1700-25[/post]

Atlantis:
- Five Nations defend successfully
Not only could this lead to a native Atlantean nation around the Great Lakes, but the mixed German-Danish-English-Dutch-Polish population could split up into factions again.

- France (or another nation) helps the Maya
Of course it's the question whether they'd risk another big war that soon.

- Russians support the Inca against Spain
So two European nations clash in South Atlantis, at the other side of the Earth. Interesting...


Muslim World:
- Seljuks defeat the Dozor republics, re-establish their rule north of the Black Sea
If they could gain a foothold here, things in russia become interesting again.

- Seljuks win the war against Italy and South Russia
Less probable - except maybe, if the latter POD also happens. Then the Seljuks could decide to strike at Naples first - and France might even help them against Italy.

- No Persian-Seljuk war
Persia stays a bit weaker, without Mecca and Medina - and France doesn't get the Sinai as a stepstone to India.


Rest of the world:
- Russians discover Australia first
Could well be - they were already in SE Asia around, and also visit the Inca.

- War breaks out between France and Persia (and maybe the Seljuks) over Ethiopia
Less likely, after they fought together. But who knows.

- Less Portuguese going to Guinea
This would prevent the Mulatto princes some decades later.


Russian lands:
- Kiev-Chernigov and the Dozor republics don't come closer together
Despite the Seljuk threat, the republicans might like their independence too much.

- No Novgorodian uprisings
Novorossiya would have to be preoccupied otherwise. This would also prevent Sweden and Poland from interfering.

- Less progress in Novorossiya
Paper money, electricity, the telegraph... TTL may become an even less Eurocentric world.


Western Europe:
- Council of Cork has a different compromise
Or none at all - would the Catholic church break in two, along the lines of the last great war?

- King Kristian III of Denmark a bit less mad
He isn't killed for trying to canonize himself

- France supports the Irish against England
Scotland only lost independence a few decades ago - the time would be right to support them too


Central Europe:
- Charles / Károly VI of Hungary killed off
This promising king brought quite some progress to Europe - like the new Russian inventions

- Netherlands don't unite with Sweden-Mecklenburg
This prevents war with France, but leaves the Dutch weaker.

- Luxembourg doesn't ally with France
Quite likely, after all the French had swallowed Luxembourg not that long ago.


East Asia:
- No Korean-Russian alliance
Which leaves Nippon comparably stronger.

- Persia defeats Vijayanagar
Will the Muslims rule the whole subcontinent, or at least smash their opponent?

- Vijayanagar defeats Persia
The other way round. Would the big Persian empire break apart?

[post=751455]The world, 1725-50[/post]
East Asia:
- China manages to implement necessary reforms
Hong China survives longer, or even rises to be an industrial power

- France doesn't found the Indochinese League, or is stopped to do so
This might lead to Chinese-French enmity, or even war.

- Britain wins the Spice Islands War
They'll gain a lot of riches and thus, influence.

- Sweden doesn't take Sri Lanka
So a minor power is shut out from East Asia

- Novorossiya and Korea don't win against Nippon
With Spanish support (frex), Nippon might stay stronger


Russian lands:
- No uprising in Serbia and Bosnia
And the Russians aren't drawn into the Balcan affairs

- No telegraph in Novorossiya
Science and communication are hampered, stay on a lower level

- No uprisings against the Czar of Vladimir-Suzdal
He can keep his power, or even expand it


Central Europe:
- No Palatinate War
One German country silently goes to another, and not much more.

- No French-Prussian War
Monarchy stays more popular in France - which will become important soon

- Dutch War of Succession joined by other powers
And we have another Great War in Europe.


Western Europe:
- Philippe VI of France has a heir
Charles X will never come to power, and monarchy will survive

- Pope stays in Rome
Will also become more important later, because he'll neither go to Spain, Britain or Antipodia.

- General Estates find a new king soon
Republicanism stays restricted to Novorossiya, with interesting consequences to think up


Atlantis:
- French-Atlantean war won by them
A half-native state with French participation could emerge from this.

- Spain and Russia make war over the West
With consequences hard to imagine.

- Tenochca uprising in Mexico successful
Hard to imagine without support from abroad, but maybe...


Muslim World:
- Egypt doesn't rise up or is defeated
The Seljuks stay a bit stronger and more respected

- Seljuks win Italian-Russian War
Easiest way for that: One of their opponents stays out.

- Swedes defend Madagascar
But to win against Persia, they might need an ally. Just whom?

[post=819141]The world, 1750-75[/post]

Russian lands:
- Novorussians lose against steppe people, or decide they're not worth fighting
Not that big a change, but there's a buffer between them and Choresm

- No Russian Civil War
Vladimir-Suzdal is around longer; Novorossiya doesn't interfere in European affairs

- Vladimir wins Russian Civil War
Similar situation, only with a stronger Vladimir.


East Asia:
- No conversion of Nippon
Either the Spaniards missionarize them by force, or they stay out of East Asia.

- Indochinese League lives on
Problem: We need changes in France for this, since their war with half of Europe cut them off from overseas trade partners.

- Korea doesn't become orthodox
So or so - they stay between several mighty powers. Things don't become better for that.


Muslim world:
- Seljuks defeat Persia
With an interesting question: Would they've dared to grab French Sinai too?

- No "Young Seljuks" revolution
And their state stays without constitution. Hard to tell about the difference, I barely wrote anything about it anyway.

- Persia doesn't dare to take French Sinai
With quite some consequences: France will have to fight Britain and Spain not just in Europe, but Asia too.


Atlantis:
- War between Denmark-Braunschweig and Italy breaks out
They're the two contenders for OTL core USA. The winner could rule the future Steel Belt.

- Nouvelle France not occupied by Italy
Not every ruler would dare to take foreign colonies, even if they have no king anymore and can't defend themselves. But then, we'd get no New Roman Empire.

- Gioacchino doesn't attack Caroline
Again. Someone else might've thought that a united Italy and a few really good colonies are enough. But what'd the former French colonies do then?


Central Europe:
- Venice not annexed by Italy
Does this mean Francesco III lives longer? But probably Venice was doomed at this point anyway.

- Franconia-Pomerania and Württemberg-Austria defeat Bavaria
Improbable that Bavaria disappears altogether, but it might shrink. Suggestion: Upper Palatinate to Franconia, Salzburg or Swabia to W-A.

- Faster or slower spread of the telegraph
The information revolution happens, well, differently. What if it comes early enough to change the French Republican wars?


Western Europe:
- France doesn't become a republic
Doesn't solve the problem where to get the next king from. But who knows, the research may be finally successful.

- Duke of Guise wins French Civil War
Not that much better, because not everyone wants him as a king, even among monarchists.

- Allies win first French Republican war
Good, the republicans are defeated, but what then?

[post=833426]The world, 1775-1800[/post]
Eastern Europe / Russian lands:
- Serbs and Bosnians don't rise up against Hungary
Could the Seljuks make a comeback instead?

- Novorossiya doesn't attack Sweden
Could be that they decide for a politic of acquiring only land inhabited by Orthodoxes, or at least by Slavs.

- Novorossiya doesn't conquer Prussia
A later occupation of Poland would become more improbable with this, too.


Atlantis:
- Italy doesn't take Louisiana
They might consider it too dangerous, or not worthy to rule. This would curb their power in Atlantis, of course.

- Britain occupies Spanish islands in the Caribbean
Smaller on the map than continental colonies, but thanks to sugar much more worth. Gioacchino's treasure chamber wouldn't be that full.

- No "Schulzenaufstand" in German/Danish Atlantis
But the question is: What would they do instead, if Denmark itself doesn't exist? The probability that it returns is small. OTOH, a Welf monarchy in Atlantis might work, as OTL Brazil.


Rest of the world:
- Songhay takes Lokoja
And thus control a city at an important trading place. There's still the question whether Sahel people could control the jungle.

- Britain conquers Australia (OTL South Africa)
They did so IOTL, and could focus on Africa - building a new colonial empire here, instead of the Germans later

- Portugal re-acquires some of its former colonies
Possible, but Britain won't like it if a french satellite does that.


Muslim World:
- Russia doesn't attack this time
Vlachians and Moldovians are no Slavs. Could this be a reason not to attack weakened Seljuk empire?

- Seljuks don't go parliamentary
Given the circumstances, it's hard to see which government could make a difference, but for the people, it'd certainly matter.

- Italy doesn't take Algeria
Could the French refugees found a nobles' republic in exile? There's no strong French navy yet...


East Asia:
- Italy has less successes with trading treaties
Not getting Vijayanagar as a partner could change a lot. And even if we're just talking about minor South East Asian countries: China could restore its influence earlier.

- General Lin Xiaolong removed
Someone else could always take his place, but WI this someone isn't that interested in western technology?

- Ming and Hong divide China along the Yangtse
Will the competition between two Chinese states rather help or hurt China?


Western Europe:
- General Boulanger doesn't take power
Would the French republic be defeated ITTL? But if, who'll become the next king, lacking legitimacy?

- Sweden doesn't ally with France
So Denmark has a chance to survive, even if it might get shorn of Braunschweig.

- No third French republican war
Theoretically, the kings should've learned one thing from their defeats.

- Welf dynasty doesn't die out
Could they decide for smarter politics, so their country survives?