Into the Azov

[dmz23]

In early 1943,Von Mansteins troops successfully re-captured Kharkov in a daring counter-attack.This German victory left a large 200km wide and 150km deep soviet-held salient between the German forward positions near Orel in the North,and Mansteins recently captured Kharkov in the South.Von Manstein now pressed for a new offensive on the same successful lines he had just pursued at Kharkov,when he cut off an overextended Soviet offensive.He suggested tricking the Soviets into attacking south against the desperately re-forming 6th army,leading them into the Donets Basin in the East Ukraine.He would then turn south from Kharkov on the eastern side of the Donets river towards Rostov and trap the entire Southern wing of the Red army against the sea of Azov.
The OKH did not approve Mansteins plan,and instead turned their attention to the obvious bulge in the lines between Orel and Kharkov.
What if Von Mainstein did get his way?When German offensives were not obvious[In direction or intent]they tended to inflict heavy defeats on the Red army[just look at the early stages of Barbarossa/Plan Blue].Could the Germans have outflanked the the Soviets into the sea of Azov? or would the Red army have enough trained reserves to make another large defeat irrelevent?
Any thoughts

[stevep]

Originally Posted by dmz23

In early 1943,Von Mansteins troops successfully re-captured Kharkov in a daring counter-attack.This German victory left a large 200km wide and 150km deep soviet-held salient between the German forward positions near Orel in the North,and Mansteins recently captured Kharkov in the South.Von Manstein now pressed for a new offensive on the same successful lines he had just pursued at Kharkov,when he cut off an overextended Soviet offensive.He suggested tricking the Soviets into attacking south against the desperately re-forming 6th army,leading them into the Donets Basin in the East Ukraine.He would then turn south from Kharkov on the eastern side of the Donets river towards Rostov and trap the entire Southern wing of the Red army against the sea of Azov.
The OKH did not approve Mansteins plan,and instead turned their attention to the obvious bulge in the lines between Orel and Kharkov.
What if Von Mainstein did get his way?When German offensives were not obvious[In direction or intent]they tended to inflict heavy defeats on the Red army[just look at the early stages of Barbarossa/Plan Blue].Could the Germans have outflanked the the Soviets into the sea of Azov? or would the Red army have enough trained reserves to make another large defeat irrelevent?
Any thoughts

Its an interesting scenario. Having the Soviets attack 1st then hitting their extended flank would have been far better than trying to fight through the deep defencive lines built up around Kursk. The Soviets were a lot better equipped by this time and had a big led in numbers but at best might well have seen their attack stalled with very heavy losses on both sides. A big victory for the Germans could well have been possible. Wouldn't have greatly changed the shape of the war as weight of numbers would have won in the end coupled with the fact such a success would have fuelled Hitler's greed and insane ambitions. However the end stop lines might have been a bit further east and to get into Germany at all Stalin might have had to ignore the Balkans.

Steve