PFPT (3) - Alternate 19th Century

Grey Wolf

Donor
Continuing on from :-

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=3657
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=38989

1880

President Daniel W Voorhees is running for re-election in the United States, his record since the end of the war and the peace treaty being judged largely on issues of national self-confidence, relative British decline, and the rise of American influence in the Pacific. The early moves towards a formal Russo-American alliance is also judged by the electorate

Within Britain, Irish Home Rule has become a reality despite the Tory-backed rebellion which has brough King William V to the throne. The Radicals have been purged from government, and the newly-ennobled Radical peers are placed under attainder. Ruling under emergency decree, William and the Earl of Salisbury restore a sense of order after a turbulent year, whilst the Duke of Cambridge is sent to India to negotiate a settlement that is not entirely ruinous to British interests

Within France, King Louis Philippe II reigns over a country whose national interests seem to be on the ascendant. Major ally to the CSA, and heavily involved in the Mexican Empire, the decline of Britain has seen France negotiate a trade treaty with the empire of Brazil, and become a major ally of Spain as King Juan III attempts to shore up his position in the face of another deterioration of the situation in Cuba

Within Austria, Franz Josef has set upon a policy of Balkan alliances and understandings aimed at diplomatically shoring up the position of the empire, especially in the face of the Russian threat manifested in its client kingdoms of Hungary and Serbia. A large naval build-up has seen an outlet for Austrian policy upon the Western Mediterranean

The Russian Empire has taken advantage of British distraction and recent weakness. The absorption of Khiva, Bokhara and Khokand has been followed by the absorption of Kashgaria and penetration into Tibet which by 1880 is becoming more of a protectorate in the face of the weakness of the Chinese

Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
1881 sees the marriage of King William V of Great Britain to Princess Charlotte of Prussia, the daughter of King Friedrich Wilhelm V.

In France, this is seen as an ominous sign - a Britain coming out of a period of weakness allying with Prussia, hints at a new alignment in European affairs

Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
I am envisaging that Daniel W Voorhees wins re-election in 1880, the American electorate being reasonably satisfied with his custody of the nation and not wishing to change leaders without reason, fearing that the steady hand of Voorhees would be replaced by one less able to resist the hardline calls for a rematch with the Confederacy

The US continues to get more involved in the Far East. Relations with Meiji Japan are warm, and the United States is heavily involved in China, in the internationally-protected enclave of Shanghai and establishing diplomatic relations with the Taiping states inland.

In India, the Duke of Cambridge, given plenipotentiary powers by the government in London, negotiates a series of far-ranging treaties. The East India Company, already defunct in fact is now dissolved. Its assets are shared between Britain, who continues to directly control large areas, and native rulers or democratic forces who take over areas where the British have been forced out of. Regarding the native states, many assert their independence, some remain tied to Britain but on more favourable terms, but overall what had been on paper a cohesive mass now becomes a much looser patchwork. An 'Indian Commonwealth' is agreed on the basis of the German Confederation, a customs union on the basis of the Zollverein but it cannot be ignored that Britain's standing is severely reduced

Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
Well, that was another weekend. No doubt for the next week I won't be able to get much done on this. Will anyone want to comment ?

Grey Wolf
 
A large naval build-up has seen an outlet for Austrian policy upon the Western Mediterranean

?Are you sure? ?Why is Austria sailing all the way around/pass, Italy/Tunsia, when they have the whole Eastern Mediterranean to play in? [this is the third time you have said this]
 
Are you ducking the slavery question in the CSA?

My thinking in CSA TL's is that there would emerge a spectrum of opinions about how to be with the CSA in the remaining USA:

1] Outright hostility with a hope of accomplishing total destruction by force of arms. However after a while this will not be that strong a position

2] Cold War competition seeing CSA as a rival but full fledged war a thing to avoid. Other Cold Waresque code phrases like "containment" could easilt arise. Proxy wars in the west and Caribbean.

3] Shunning. Pretend the God Damn Thing does not exist. Have nothing to do with it.

4] Seduce the border states -- given internal tensions within the CSA hope to seduce Kentucky and perhaps even Virginia back to the USA, esp. if they abandon slavery and the rest do not.

5] Constructive engagement of CSA as a whole (Spirit of Glasboro! another Cold Warism
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
G.Bone said:
Will there be a map coming soon?

I don't know how to do a map on the computer, and haven't got the time to trace one and scan it (if even the scanner worked).

Asked previously, Janina is basically Albania plus Kosovo plus W Macedonia and all of Epirus. The pasha seceded from the Ottoman Empire upon the overthrow of the Osmanli and the accesssion of the Giray, and later on made himself king.

Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
DuQuense said:
?Are you sure? ?Why is Austria sailing all the way around/pass, Italy/Tunsia, when they have the whole Eastern Mediterranean to play in? [this is the third time you have said this]

I meant Eastern, seem to be having difficulties with my East and West (as in saying the USA struggled to get an East coast !)

Apologies

Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
Tom_B said:
Are you ducking the slavery question in the CSA?

My thinking in CSA TL's is that there would emerge a spectrum of opinions about how to be with the CSA in the remaining USA:

1] Outright hostility with a hope of accomplishing total destruction by force of arms. However after a while this will not be that strong a position

2] Cold War competition seeing CSA as a rival but full fledged war a thing to avoid. Other Cold Waresque code phrases like "containment" could easilt arise. Proxy wars in the west and Caribbean.

3] Shunning. Pretend the God Damn Thing does not exist. Have nothing to do with it.

4] Seduce the border states -- given internal tensions within the CSA hope to seduce Kentucky and perhaps even Virginia back to the USA, esp. if they abandon slavery and the rest do not.

5] Constructive engagement of CSA as a whole (Spirit of Glasboro! another Cold Warism


Er...yes :) Last time I tried a major timeline it got completely bogged down over slavery. I am assuming that it continues, but am thinking that one of the effects of having French armies in the CSA in the Second War (1870s) would be about slavery. It may be that some of the states make moves to reduce the institution, transform it etc, but I am thinking the movement will come from the states not the centre. However, I am thinking that the centre, strengthened by necessity in this war, would be able to legislate some overall laws which at least work on humane aspects of the problem

After defeat in the Second War, the United States probably sees every body of opinion that you mention. Option 1 will be the hardline view of the extremists, but the other options are probably all mainstream. I kind of imagine Voorhees vaccilating between 3 and 5

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I've only been able to recently keep up with your timeline. I like it so far.

I think that you're right about slavery being dismantled at the state level, especially in places like Virginia. I am intrigued to see how weak Britain gets...could France become the new superpower?
 
This is not excatly OTL's CSA. After all TTL Mexico still has Tejas, Therefore the CS Consitution is different- The Protection of involuntary severtude would be worded different. This allows the POTCS & the SCOCS to reinterpert the Consitution. Of corse this leads to internal political tensions. [Great when you need to distract the CS]
 
Hmm....I keep forgetting about Tejas not being in the CSA. I liked the fact that some Confederates are pushing for a stronger central government. Perhaps the CSA will strengthen its central government in response to the recent war, or at least the memory of it?
 
Grey wolf:
I find a good map template using Google (or the one someone posted here), right click on it and select edit, doodle as I wish, then save it.
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
DuQuense said:
This is not excatly OTL's CSA. After all TTL Mexico still has Tejas, Therefore the CS Consitution is different- The Protection of involuntary severtude would be worded different. This allows the POTCS & the SCOCS to reinterpert the Consitution. Of corse this leads to internal political tensions. [Great when you need to distract the CS]

Some very good points - how do you see this playing out ? What are POTCS and SCOCS ? Very interested in your reply

Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
Coriolanus said:
Hmm....I keep forgetting about Tejas not being in the CSA. I liked the fact that some Confederates are pushing for a stronger central government. Perhaps the CSA will strengthen its central government in response to the recent war, or at least the memory of it?

Its quite likely that that is the case, and quite possible that the position of France will be quite important also

Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
tom said:
Grey wolf:
I find a good map template using Google (or the one someone posted here), right click on it and select edit, doodle as I wish, then save it.

I just don't think I am intelligent enough to do this, I have tried using Paint but it comes a horrid scrawl

If someone wants to have a go at a map then fine by me :)

Grey Wolf
 
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