Earlier suicide bombers

[Thande]

In the Settling Accounts books, Harry Turtledove introduced the idea of the Mormons and the anti-Confederate black rebels using suicide bombers (or 'people bombs') and the US and CS having to adopt authoritarian security crackdowns in the 1940s of the type only being contemplated now in OTL (except in Israel).

What other groups might have employed suicide bombers, and how much earlier?

I'm thinking the two main groups would be

1. religious and quasi-religious fanatics whom either believe they will be rewarded in the afterlife for their 'martyrdom' (e.g. modern Islamic fundamentalists) OR believe that all life is meaningless anyway (such as the 19th century Russian nihilists).

2. people from 'shame' cultures who might seek redemption for their crimes by committing such acts against the enemy and killing themselves in the attempt. Most obviously Japan although this was not the motivation of the kamikazes in OTL.

One idea I did have was of a nomadic people such as the Mongols ostracising a member of the group for some taboo, and making them redeem themselves by riding straight into an enemy troop formation loaded up with gunpowder and...

Thoughts?

[Quiet_Man]

Native Americans? I realise they had no powder making facilities of their own, but the potential is there from the counting coup activities of the plains nations.

[Tocomocho]

Originally Posted by Thande

One idea I did have was of a nomadic people such as the Mongols ostracising a member of the group for some taboo, and making them redeem themselves by riding straight into an enemy troop formation loaded up with gunpowder and...

Well, the mongols actually used "suicide" animals. They put on fire packs of grass over camels, horses and even elephants, that run into the enemy lines scared by the fire. Just add some gunpowder in the packs and change the animals by people (I'm thinking in foreign prisoners of war, rather than Mongols). Very cruel tactic, by the way.

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Tocomocho

Well, the mongols actually used "suicide" animals. They put on fire packs of grass over camels, horses and even elephants, that run into the enemy lines scared by the fire. Just add some gunpowder in the packs and change the animals by people (I'm thinking in foreign prisoners of war, rather than Mongols).

Ah! That sounds like a plausible idea. Interesting...

[MrP]

Originally Posted by Tocomocho

Well, the mongols actually used "suicide" animals. They put on fire packs of grass over camels, horses and even elephants, that run into the enemy lines scared by the fire. Just add some gunpowder in the packs and change the animals by people (I'm thinking in foreign prisoners of war, rather than Mongols). Very cruel tactic, by the way.

Interesting concept. Sounds similar to fireships and bombships . . .

[CalBear]

Problem with suicide bombers is two fold.

The first is technical, The explosive power of black powder was not near the power of modern plastics. It was also unlikely to detonate, as opposed to fast burn (which would kill the bomber, but would mostly cause a bad smell otherwise) unless it was contained. That means a bomb casing and casing of the time were both heavy and difficult to conceal. Try sneaking into a crowded location whilst hiding a bolwing ball or a large melon. Not easy. Detonation also presents a problem. Fuses need to be lit, this presents a problem even today (look at that shoe bomber moron). Over all, at the risk of a bad pun, there just isn't enough bang for the buck.

The second, and more important problem, is cultural. You need to be either intensely committed or barking mad to volunteer for this job. These tendencies are in fairly short supply even today (thank God). You then need to find an acceptably large target, not as easy as today, with our huge cities and many gathering places, and make it in to a point where you can succeed. Not easy. You are also attacking civilians for the most part, armies learn very quickly to shoot first when confronted by this sort of tactic, and that isn't done, at least until the Boer War/WW I time frame. You will cause far more damage to your cause than you will ever gain if you attack "innocents" since, in the old days, they were off limits.

Lastly, there is the entire point, which is to spread terror. With communications taking days, if not weeks, the whole terror thing simply isn't as effective.

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by Tocomocho

Well, the mongols actually used "suicide" animals. They put on fire packs of grass over camels, horses and even elephants, that run into the enemy lines scared by the fire. Just add some gunpowder in the packs and change the animals by people (I'm thinking in foreign prisoners of war, rather than Mongols). Very cruel tactic, by the way.

More recently we have had the Russian 'Mine Dogs' and, even earlier than the Mongols, during the Roman republic, pigs covered in tar and set alight were used to disrupt and damage elephants. The suicide (or in the case of animals, living weapons) is very ancient