WI the US declared war on Germany following the sinking of the Lusitania?

The sinking of the Lusitania is considered one of the factors that contributed to the US entering WW1 but not the main one as the US didn't declare war on Germany until near 2 years later.

What if the US in this scenario did declare war on Germany within the 1915 calendar year following the sinking. How would that have affected the war as a whole?
 
Armistice comes six months sooner?

Its not clear to me if the US could have mobilized a army much sooner than OTL. Maybe ten months sooner? Then again I may be wrong & a one million man AEF be entering large scale combat in the winter of early 1917.
 
Could Wilson have gotten a declaration of war over the *Lusitania* even if he wanted one? I doubt it. As Arthur Link writes in *Woodrow Wilson and the Progressive Era 1910-1917,* pp. 164-166:

"Americans were shocked and horrified at what they considered the deliberate murder of almost twelve hundred noncombatants, including 128 Americans, on the high seas, by direct order of the German government. But except for a small group of ardent nationalists headed by Theodore Roosevelt, few Americans wanted to go to war to avenge the wrong. The great majority applauded when Wilson acted deliberately during the crisis, even when he declared in a speech at Philadelphia on May 10 that "There is such a thing as a man being too proud to fight." 4S From governors, senators, congressmen, and other spokesmen came fervid appeals for peace. From Senator Thomas S. Martin and Representative Hal D. Flood, two powerful Democratic leaders, came an explicit warning that the country did not want war and that the President might find it impossible to obtain a war resolution from Congress.

"It should not, however, be assumed that in the subsequent negotiations with the German government Wilson's strong arm was paralyzed by popular and Congressional opposition to a belligerent policy. The President was confident there would be no real diplomatic crisis and, in any event, contemplated no stronger step than severing relations with Germany..." https://archive.org/stream/woodrowwilsonand007665mbp#page/n207/mode/2up
 
Armistice comes six months sooner?

Its not clear to me if the US could have mobilized a army much sooner than OTL. Maybe ten months sooner? Then again I may be wrong & a one million man AEF be entering large scale combat in the winter of early 1917.

Hmm would it take that long to mobilize the troops? IOTL war was declared in April 1917 and the first battle ready units were deployed in Spring of 1918, that was with the US forces not wanting to deploy Americans under European generals.

With an almost 2 year head-start in terms of declaring war wouldn't we see the arrival battle ready units by early 1917 the absolute latest?
 

LordKalvert

Banned
Hmm would it take that long to mobilize the troops? IOTL war was declared in April 1917 and the first battle ready units were deployed in Spring of 1918, that was with the US forces not wanting to deploy Americans under European generals.

With an almost 2 year head-start in terms of declaring war wouldn't we see the arrival battle ready units by early 1917 the absolute latest?

One of the reasons that the US was able to field an army so quickly is that American industry had had years to tool up for war production. The Russian revolution allowed America to simply take over the production that was ordered by the Russians forAmerica's own use

Declaring war in 1915 while the British were forming their own army would have been much more difficult
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Armistice comes six months sooner?

Its not clear to me if the US could have mobilized a army much sooner than OTL. Maybe ten months sooner? Then again I may be wrong & a one million man AEF be entering large scale combat in the winter of early 1917.

I imagine the mobilization curve being about the same in terms of duration after the war declaration. So call it a year to eighteen months earlier that the US forces are entering the line.

The industry issue is pretty much a wash. Given the choice between forming more French units and forming American units, the obvious answer is to send the equipment to the Americans - so it becomes equipment rather than manpower which is the crunch issue.
 
Yeah, that was my thought, provision of equipment. US production wont be ramped up as far, but there are posssibilities using French material. Nearly all the artillery of the AEF was of French make anyway.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
The important knock-on is probably Russia. I doubt there'd be the OTL Russian morale collapse even if there was still a revolution of some kind, with the Western component of the Entente causing more trouble and pressuring more.

...actually, if some of the US dreadnought battle-line goes to the North Sea, do we get Jutland?
 
Hmm would it take that long to mobilize the troops? IOTL war was declared in April 1917 and the first battle ready units were deployed in Spring of 1918, that was with the US forces not wanting to deploy Americans under European generals. ...

The few units deployed to battle in the summer of 1918 were based on Regular Army, or Marine formations exisiting before April 1917. Even at that their training was still weak. Also the Command question was aimed at when large numbers were trained. Through the summer of 1918 the bulk of the US formations doing their field traning & 'combat training' in the trenches were attached to French corps or divisions. When US mobilization started the US Army completely lacked the number of officers or NCOs trained for the HQ staff. For fielding a army of any size this is the critical component & preparing men for the tasks of the HQ operations or logisitcs depts requires more time than any other military job.

Other than some aging retired officers, and a few more short service officers now in civilian life there was no real reserve pool to draw from. The state militias had no staff training worthy of the name. Right up to the end of 1918 the problem was still tripping up the AEF.

It would probablly be better to slow the stages of a US mobilization. A smaller but better prepared AEF in 1916 or 1917.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Honestly, it'd probably help if they listened to the Entente advisers as well. OTL they just blew them off as not knowing anything about how to fight - which resulted in rather nasty casualties.




"close adherence is urged to the central idea that essential principles of war have not changed, that the rifle and bayonet remain the supreme weapons of the infantry soldier and that the ultimate success of the army depends upon their proper use in open warfare" General John Pershing, 19 October 1917.



One evening I had to give a lecture on 'The Attack' to the whole Regiment's [119th Infantry] Officers in the Town Hall, Yeuse. I mugged up the Army's official pamphlet and duly held forth, adding a few personal experiences and lessons. When I had ended the old Colonel, dressed more like a sheriff than a Colonel, heaved himself up onto the platform and said, "Gentlemen, I'd like youse all to accord the Scottish Major a hearty vote of thanks for his verra interesting lecture." Then he shook his finger and went on, "but I'd have youse guys remember the British have been trying these tactics for near four years and they ain't done much damn good!" (Captain A.F.P Christison, MC, 6th Cameron Highlanders)

"The Brigadier rode up whilst this show was in progress and joined the group of officers where I was enlarging on the Ox's commentary. I was receiving a sneering reception, the general opinion being that American troops would storm their objective without bothering about such fads as covering fire and barrages, etc.
"In any case it doesn't require much training or practice to do a show like that," commented one officer.
The Brigadier was on him like a knife. "Very well," he snapped. "I should like one of your platoons to give us a demonstration immediately."
The result was a complete fiasco. The men were willing enough but they simply did not understand what they were trying to do. I strolled round to where the Lewis gunners were stationed on one flank. They were trying to fit the magazine onto the gun upside down! The riflemen were shooting indiscriminately in every direction whilst I decided to keep as far away from the bombers as possible. I should not have been in the least surprised had there been one or two casualties. When they had finished the General let them have it hot and strong, pointing out what would have happened had they been facing a real enemy..."
(Captain A.O Pollard, VC, Honourable Artillery Company; compare the complex tactics the British are attempting to teach the Americans to the basic "rifle and bayonet charge" tactics the Americans seem to be set on).



Of course, as per RobC, it might have resulted in a more decisive end to WW1:


The reason the war was ended by armistice was largely due to the fact that the US army "is not yet organised: it is ill-equipped, half trained, with insufficient supply services. Experienced officers and NCOs are lacking... The French and American Armies are not capable of making a serious offensive now. The British alone might bring the enemy to his knees. But why expend more British lives- and for what?" (Haig at the War Cabinet, 19 October 1918). As such- though I apologise for the pedantry- a better US army might have ended the war later but more decisively with an advance into Germany.


So... not a bad outcome, overall. If you have more than one coherent army capable of offensive into Germany, that is.

Heck, might even butterfly the French mutinies...
 
So... not a bad outcome, overall. If you have more than one coherent army capable of offensive into Germany, that is.

The Entente were not and never would have been interested in advancing into Germany. The OTL Armistice gave them everything they wanted, and they would have had no interest in running up more casualties, whatever the state of the US Army.

They also know that their troops will be screaming to get back to their homes as soon as it's over, so they won't be able to keep up an army of occupation for any length of time. They will want an Armistice which leaves Germany unable to renew the war, and as soon as Germany accepts that (ie as soon as the battle line gets anywhere near her border) that's what will happen.

Indeed it might even have been more lenient. If the AEF has at the beginning of 1918 anything like the strength it had OTL at the end, the German offensives of that year are probably aborted. In that case, Germany may well seek peace while the stalemate in the trenches still continues, and her armies are not in headlong retreat as OTL. So they may get off lighter.
 

LordKalvert

Banned
The important knock-on is probably Russia. I doubt there'd be the OTL Russian morale collapse even if there was still a revolution of some kind, with the Western component of the Entente causing more trouble and pressuring more.

...actually, if some of the US dreadnought battle-line goes to the North Sea, do we get Jutland?

The really important knock-on would be Bulgaria. She joins the war in October 1915 but if the Americans are in already, would she still do so?
Bulgaria neutrality is worth probably a year off the war- she is the vital link to the Ottoman Empire as well as playing a crucial role in the Serbian and Romanian campaigns

Not sure how avoiding Jutland helps either side
 
The really important knock-on would be Bulgaria. She joins the war in October 1915 but if the Americans are in already, would she still do so?
Bulgaria neutrality is worth probably a year off the war- she is the vital link to the Ottoman Empire as well as playing a crucial role in the Serbian and Romanian campaigns

Not sure how avoiding Jutland helps either side

Unless you change the outcome of the Balkan wars they will not remain neutral.
 

LordKalvert

Banned
Unless you change the outcome of the Balkan wars they will not remain neutral.

The Bulgarians take their sweet time before joining the Central Powers and would never join an Austro-German alliance facing certain defeat. American intervention would clearly show the hopelessness of the CP cause.

The Bulgarians, like the Italians and the Romanians, are opportunistic combatants jumping on the side that they thought could win and offering them what they wanted
 
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