Popculture WI: The BBC making a better Robin Hood series in the 2000s and/or 2010s

After having seen Tom Riley and co. in the Doctor Who episode "Robot of Sherwood", I really, really sighed that we didn't get this sort of fun-but-respectful interpretation of the Robin Hood legend on TV in the 2000s or this decade. What I'm missing in the modern day is a Robin Hood based TV series that's family-friendly, funny, and has that old-fashioned sense of adventure about it, without any unnecessary added pretention. There's just a complete dearth of that kind of adaptation around right now.

I think plenty of people here will agree with me that the Robin Hood series made by Tiger Productions that started airing about a decade ago, was basically a mistake. I've never understood who that show was supposed to appeal to, aside from a certain segment of the teen viewership (which it also didn't service that particularly well, IMHO). The anachronisms were also so increasingly bad and the set design so cheap and poor, I think even Costner's old RH film looked downright believable and faithful in comparison.

So, while I doubt the BBC would try to do something as gritty-minded as ITV's 1980s Robin of Sherwood nowadays, I think a more traditional, storybook-style, semi-comedic series about the famous outlaw could have actually worked. I think it could have garnered quite an audience, if done well. Especially in the family show crowd that seems to have been revived during the last decade. Get some good writers, give it to BBC Cymru Wales, ditch doomed-to-fail attempts at shows like Atlantis, and it might attract a pretty good viewing audience.

The OTL 2000s Robin Hood tried to appeal to teens far too hard and too clumsily, and started coming across as ridiculous really early on for it. From what I've seen in reviews, that sort of pandering, and some of the more ridiculous decisions made later on for shock value (killing off Marian, just overall derailing of characters, etc.) alienated even the established viewers.

So, what about a more "family show" take on the legends, without going either "grimdark" or "ironic, postmodern, too kiddy" in terms of tone ? Could it be pulled off, given a better precedent ?
 
I think you are selling the 2006 series a little short. While it is universally agreed it went seriously off the rails after Marian was killed off the show was broadly liked by critics at least at the start and had pretty decent ratings.

Does the success of Merlin offer any help?
 
So, what about a more "family show" take on the legends, without going either "grimdark" or "ironic, postmodern, too kiddy" in terms of tone ? Could it be pulled off, given a better precedent ?

I guess that the problem there is that it would probably be compared to the 1960s Patrick Troughton series.

It would probably be considered postmodern and kiddy, but a remake of the 1990s series Maid Marian and her Merry Men might work.


Cheers,
Nigel.
 
It would probably be considered postmodern and kiddy, but a remake of the 1990s series Maid Marian and her Merry Men might work.

While that's another option, I think a remake wouldn't go down well because too many people would have liked the old series far too much to see it remade all over again.

In addition, what I'm shilling for here is a more typical, adventure-focused series.

I guess that the problem there is that it would probably be compared to the 1960s Patrick Troughton series.

True dat, but that was made in the 1960s and was still B&W. :) If we're going for the revival or remake angle, I'd argue the BBC could market a new series as "like the 60s Troughton series, but now in colour, HD, updated, etc.". ;) There would obviously be at least some ways to shill it to a modern audience. Having mentioned DW, everyone felt it was "spent, a thing of the past" until the revival in 2005. The BBC might want to make lightning strike twice.

I think you are selling the 2006 series a little short. While it is universally agreed it went seriously off the rails after Marian was killed off the show was broadly liked by critics at least at the start and had pretty decent ratings.

I, for one, don't think I'm selling it pretty short. It got some pretty bad reviews already early on, and even a lot of the viewers were complaining it looks a bit too cheap/weird and is a little too anachronistic. Any RH series is obviously based on legends, but that doesn't mean it has to be overly stylised to the point of irrelevance. The 2006 show was just trying too hard from day one to "look hip", and there was little sense of actual adventure in it.

Basically, almost the only good thing about that series was Armitage's take on Guy Gisborne, and even he was eventually derailed by the script into just a thug/loon.

Does the success of Merlin offer any help ?

I was thinking about something slightly more along the lines of Merlin, yeah. Just a bit less melodramatic than either that or the 2006 "Robin Hoodie" stuff.
 
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I always thought that a near future dystopian version along similar lines to the V for Vendetta film would have worked well pretty well.
 
Plus, after Marian died, they replaced her with a character (Kate) who was...not greeted well by the fans, to put it mildly.

Interestingly, the actress who played Kate (Joanne Froggett) went on to play the much more popular Anna on Downton Abbey; she's good in that series if you ever watch it (just wish the universe would stop dumping on her and Bates)...
 
I was thinking about something slightly more along the lines of Merlin, yeah. Just a bit less melodramatic than either that or the 2006 "Robin Hoodie" stuff.

Some of the actors from OTL Merlin could easily have ended up in this hypothetical Robin Hood so you have a pool of alternate actors there (with the likely exception of Katie McGrath as she's stated in interviews her breaking into acting was more or less a fluke and a 2005 or earlier POD could butterfly away her career entirely.)
 
Some of the actors from OTL Merlin could easily have ended up in this hypothetical Robin Hood so you have a pool of alternate actors there (with the likely exception of Katie McGrath as she's stated in interviews her breaking into acting was more or less a fluke and a 2005 or earlier POD could butterfly away her career entirely.)

Interesting, didn't know that. I'm happy for her. :cool:

I always thought that a near future dystopian version along similar lines to the V for Vendetta film would have worked well pretty well.

Eh, please no. It's a good idea for a computer game or something, but not the best for a TV series. Unless it would be brilliantly written and have a little levity and genre self-awareness, I think it could come across as belaboured and derivative. Either way, it wouldn't really fit my "make it a family-friendly, but not too cutesy show" idea.

Plus, after Marian died, they replaced her with a character (Kate) who was...not greeted well by the fans, to put it mildly.

That was when the already questionable direction of the series hit rock-bottom. I think it's very telling that Kate was such a terribly written (or hardly written at all) character. They just had no idea what purpose she could serve. It wasn't just her, though. The show had lost all pretense of being anything else but a teen soap by that point. This is something I'd like to see averted in this hypothetical alternate Robin Show. The adventure should come first, the character development should come from that, and there shouldn't be any needless soap-operatics involved at all.
 
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Instead of trying to make a teen soap or have a more "realistic" Robin Hood how about just doing a televised version of the actual stories about Robin Hood much like an old fashioned BBC Sunday Teatime production (for example the Roger Lancelyn Green version).
In many ways the most popular Robin Hood film is still the Errol Flynn version so surely a TV programme in the same vein would be popular?
 
Interesting, didn't know that. I'm happy for her. :cool:

Yeah, I certainly don't mean it as a slight on her - I'm definitely a fan - but she's clear how much right place/right time it was.

She was the only non-trained actor on set; she has a degree in history from Trinity College and was working in the costuming department for The Tudors (which was filmed in Ireland). Obviously being gorgeous helped but she's pretty open about the fact she fell into acting and got a ridiculously lucky break with Merlin.

She's actually kind of interesting case study in butterflies; a matter of a few months difference from OTL and she'd likely be working in another field altogether or still be a complete unknown.

That was when the already questionable direction of the series hit rock-bottom. I think it's very telling that Kate was such a terribly written (or hardly written at all) character. They just had no idea what purpose she could serve. It wasn't just her, though. The show had lost all pretense of being anything else but a teen soap by that point. This is something I'd like to see averted in this hypothetical alternate Robin Show. The adventure should come first, the character development should come from that, and there shouldn't be any needless soap-operatics involved at all.
Oh God yes Kate. I liked the series more than you did but I agree that she was dreadful.

I think fixing the villains might the first step. With the Sheriff they were clearly going for something like Alan Rickman's scenery chewing performance in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves but they didn't consider that Keith Allen is nowhere near as menacing as Rickman could be.

Meanwhile you have Sir Guy of Gisborne, the most inconsistently written character in the series. Richard Armitage did what he could but he was basically playing a different character every week - is Guy a brooding, tragic villain with a certain nobility to him? A hired thug? A coward? Incredibly brave? Truly in love with Marian? Simply in lust with her/after her land? All of the above?
 
What exactly do you have in mind by that, Lindseyman ?

The whole "slightly Errol Flynn style Robin Hood" thing is what I'm suggesting in this thread, at least in terms of tone. Though more historically accurate than such an old film production could be (not necessarily "gritty", but you know, without overly major anachronisms for when the legends are supposedly set).
 
A remake (for want of a better word) of the Richard Greene series is actually what I was imagining. No post modern ironic twists just a straight telling of the stories and who cares if it is historically accurate as long as there are no glaring anachronisms :D
 
Given that it was done better by ITV with Jason Connery and others in 1984-6 I guess the overwhelming response from older viewers was "Why bother?"
 
Not being the target demographic, loving Robin of Sherwood more than is perhaps good for my health and actually liking half decent costuming this series was always going to be low on my list - but oh my word it was utter, utter weasel poo.

As I don't think you could redo RoS (simply cos it was already perfect and you can't improve, so why bother?), an updated Flynn style full of derring do and buckled swashes would be ace. Keep Keith Allen as Sherrif, a decent fight /stunt coordinator (Mark Ryan :D?) shove some strong female characters in (Marion could kick ass ..) and just muck about with the stories. No brainer, not gonna be the best (obviously) but it'll be fun Saturday afternoon / evening stuff.
 
I think the 80s series "fantasy" approach would work much better today than then.

I actually loved that series - never could watch any Robbie Robbie Robin Hood series (or movie) afterwards and like it.

Well men in thighs had a different lighthearted tone, so it worked for my

I definitely hated the Kevin "Crusty the Clown" Kostner approach. Though the Sheriff worked well ;)

I bet a new series would work if the opponents are not simple evildoers, but have nice traits too. Like the evil Snape in HP who turned out to be a decent man in the end

A Guy of Gisburne who works for the Sheriff, but has his own motives - maybe even sympathies for Robin - which could be the reason why he never can best Robin - even when all is stacked in his favor ;)
 
I think the 80s series "fantasy" approach would work much better today than then.

I actually loved that series - never could watch any Robbie Robbie Robin Hood series (or movie) afterwards and like it.

Well men in thighs had a different lighthearted tone, so it worked for my

I definitely hated the Kevin "Crusty the Clown" Kostner approach. Though the Sheriff worked well ;)

I bet a new series would work if the opponents are not simple evildoers, but have nice traits too. Like the evil Snape in HP who turned out to be a decent man in the end

A Guy of Gisburne who works for the Sheriff, but has his own motives - maybe even sympathies for Robin - which could be the reason why he never can best Robin - even when all is stacked in his favor ;)

A Vikings-style treatment of the legend would be great, but it'd have to be a late evening show...
 
I'd prefer something more historically-based. Frankly, I err against a family affair, but that's just my opinion. Just make sure it bears a resemblance to actual history.
 
A Vikings-style treatment of the legend would be great, but it'd have to be a late evening show...

No, the trick in this scenario is to make it a family-friendly show.

For what you call "a Vikings-style treatment", just watch Robin of Sherwood.

I'd prefer something more historically-based. Frankly, I err against a family affair, but that's just my opinion. Just make sure it bears a resemblance to actual history.

This is actually something I'm in favour of. It doesn't need to be outright cartoony. Lighthearted, yes, but with a bit of grittiness and at least basic accuracy in the costuming, architecture and so on.

EDIT from 2017: Didn't come cross my mind at the time, but the sort of approach similar to what the BBC itself did for The Musketeers series would be pretty good for what I have in mind.
 
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I realise this is slightly off topic but I thought it worth sharing. And apologies - I don't have a reference for the following purported plot outline for Season 4:

Episode 1: The gang bury Robin's body and accept Archer as their new leader
Episode 2: Tuck leaves to do more traveling
Episode 3: Much realises Tuck is heading to trouble and leaves to warn him
Episode 4: Prince John comes back and Archer tries to make him compromise to not kill King Richard
Episode 5: Prince John escapes, and Blamire (who survived the castle explosion) finds Archer and the gang and ultimately kills Kate.
Episode 6: Tuck and Much return, as does King Richard. Much and Little John tell him everything.
Episode 7: Prince John brings an army to kill the 4 remaining outlaws, and Richard tries to settle it by having a personal fight between the King and Prince themselves
Episode 8: Prince John makes Blamire the new Sheriff and has him rebuild Nottingham Castle
Episode 9: Much is kidnapped in the castle's dungeons, and Prince John interrogates him about Archer's plans
Episode 10: Little John thinks Robin and Allan's ghosts are telling him something
Episode 11: Prince John realises he is alone and tries to kill Richard and the gang himself
Episode 12: Prince John successfully kills King Richard
Episode 13: The gang are forced to surrender when they realise killing Prince John would put England in trouble. They almost give in their lives, but two old gang members return from the Holy Land (presumedly Will and Djaq).


PS: Patrick Troughton played RH for six episodes in 1953. Richard Greene played RH for 143 (?) episodes from 1956-59. There were no RH television series made in the sixties. OK, yes one but does Rocket Robin Hood really count? Hammer did make a pilot in 1969 but it was never picked up.
 
No, the trick in this scenario is to make it a family-friendly show.

For what you call "a Vikings-style treatment", just watch Robin of Sherwood.



This is actually something I'm in favour of. It doesn't need to be outright cartoony. Lighthearted, yes, but with a bit of grittiness and at least basic accuracy in the costuming, architecture and so on.

Nothing's forgotten. Nothing's ever forgotten :D

I agree, RoS is pretty much the gritty view - less blood than would be in a modern one, though. Like I say above, you can Flynn it right up without loosing much of any historical fidelity - much of that is in the costuming and sets. Make it all a bit muddier, more brown and green and grey, and on top of that the stories about getting one over on a large ham of a Sherrif with a set of memorable mooks and you've essentially got your Saturday evening show.
 
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