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Old January 18th, 2004, 04:48 PM
Archangel Michael Archangel Michael is offline
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General Sherman, the American Ceaser

Let us say that Lincoln picked a hard-core southern as his VP for his second term, and this lost him so votes, but nothing major. This souther, let's name him Jeremy Willson, is not liked by the military and the population in general. After Lincoln's assasination, Wilson comes to power. This outrages the military since he will take a soft-line towards the south and reduce the military. So, after Lincoln's assasination, an orginazation of American generals and soldiers, under General Sherman, plan a coup against the government.

The coup begins September 15th, 1865 as units of the Pennsylavania and New York Militias, and some military units, mach onto Washingont, and enter the White House. Sherman orders Wilson to hand over control of the government to Sherman, and Wilson agrees. Sherman declares himself president and supreme ruler of the United States of America. The constitution is ammened so that President's serve for life, and Congress just becomes an advisory board, reduced to one house.

Do you think Sherman would march across the world, taking most of it over? And would the American public like this American Ceaser?
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Old January 18th, 2004, 10:45 PM
David S Poepoe David S Poepoe is offline
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Is it just me, or does it not appear to others that a "hardcore southern" candidate to serve as Lincoln's Vice President would probably be in the Confederacy rather than living in the North? Why such a gentleman would want to appear on the same ticket as Lincoln also beggers imagination.

I think it more probably, that should Sherman overthrow the Government he will turn it over to some handpicked civilian successor. The only Union general that favored a dictatorship, possibly for the duration of the war, was Joseph Hooker.
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Old January 19th, 2004, 01:10 AM
Archangel Michael Archangel Michael is offline
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One thing that is missing from Alternate History, what-if the person involved (in this one, General Sherman), had a diferent personality that OTL, or somehow had different belifes than OTL.
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Old January 19th, 2004, 02:22 AM
DuQuense DuQuense is offline
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Thumbs down

The People in the ATL are by definition Identical to OTL people rite up to the POD, They may start acting differert after, but unless your POD is a mass change in the Person, they would only slowly change mentally from OTL. In the short term their Reaction would be the same as OTL. Sorry.

As for Your POD, given the training and background of the US [include CSA] Military, a Coup is very unlikely, and if somehow you manage it. the Military would want to turn it back over to the Civilians as quick as possible.
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Old January 19th, 2004, 06:00 AM
David S Poepoe David S Poepoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
One thing that is missing from Alternate History, what-if the person involved (in this one, General Sherman), had a diferent personality that OTL, or somehow had different belifes than OTL.
Actually, I want to know where they got the 'Southern' Vice Presidential candidate from? Why would they even let him cross the over from the other side? Why would any decent Southern gentleman want to be on the same ballot as Abraham Africanus?
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Old January 19th, 2004, 10:47 PM
robertp6165 robertp6165 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
Let us say that Lincoln picked a hard-core southern as his VP for his second term, and this lost him so votes, but nothing major. This souther, let's name him Jeremy Willson, is not liked by the military and the population in general. After Lincoln's assasination, Wilson comes to power. This outrages the military since he will take a soft-line towards the south and reduce the military. So, after Lincoln's assasination, an orginazation of American generals and soldiers, under General Sherman, plan a coup against the government.

The coup begins September 15th, 1865 as units of the Pennsylavania and New York Militias, and some military units, mach onto Washingont, and enter the White House. Sherman orders Wilson to hand over control of the government to Sherman, and Wilson agrees. Sherman declares himself president and supreme ruler of the United States of America. The constitution is ammened so that President's serve for life, and Congress just becomes an advisory board, reduced to one house.

Do you think Sherman would march across the world, taking most of it over? And would the American public like this American Ceaser?
The biggest problem with this POD is the idea of General Sherman leading a military coup against the government. Sherman was a complete "law and order" type who would NEVER have done that. This is why he was so adamantly opposed to the Southern secession...he felt it was an illegal act.
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Old January 19th, 2004, 11:20 PM
David Howery David Howery is offline
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not to mention he was rather apolitical... IIRC, he was the one who said he wouldn't run for nomination for president and wouldn't accept if he was nominated....
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Old January 19th, 2004, 11:35 PM
robertp6165 robertp6165 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Howery
not to mention he was rather apolitical... IIRC, he was the one who said he wouldn't run for nomination for president and wouldn't accept if he was nominated....
yes, that is true. He said, "If nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve." Hardly the type to sieze control of the government.
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Old January 20th, 2004, 01:09 AM
NapoleonXIV NapoleonXIV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuQuense
The People in the ATL are by definition Identical to OTL people rite up to the POD, They may start acting differert after, but unless your POD is a mass change in the Person, they would only slowly change mentally from OTL. In the short term their Reaction would be the same as OTL. Sorry.

As for Your POD, given the training and background of the US [include CSA] Military, a Coup is very unlikely, and if somehow you manage it. the Military would want to turn it back over to the Civilians as quick as possible.
Well, what COULD make Sherman take over the govt? Let's say that Jeremy Willson wanted essentially to unmake the war and let the South secede, would he act then?

And having acted isn't it possible that he could convince himself that he should be in charge and stay in charge. Sherman was certainly a believer in the end justifying the means, but what end could justify him in this?

Its really hard to make Sherman a villain though, he's a strangely likable character for a scourge
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Old January 20th, 2004, 09:40 PM
robertp6165 robertp6165 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapoleonXIV
Well, what COULD make Sherman take over the govt? Let's say that Jeremy Willson wanted essentially to unmake the war and let the South secede, would he act then?

And having acted isn't it possible that he could convince himself that he should be in charge and stay in charge. Sherman was certainly a believer in the end justifying the means, but what end could justify him in this?

Its really hard to make Sherman a villain though, he's a strangely likable character for a scourge
Sherman was fixated on "law and order" almost to the point of it being a neurosis. He was able to justify to himself, for example, the deeds committed during the March to the Sea, the destruction of Meridian, etc., on the basis that he was punishing lawbreakers...even though he himself acknowledged that according to what he had been taught at West Point, he could be justly hanged as a war criminal for what he did. A possible POD may be that this Jeremy Wilson acts in some manner which Sherman considers to be a total breach of law and order....just what that might be, I don't know. Possibly Wilson suspends the Constitution for some reason, or forces through Congress a law declaring all political parties except his own illegal? Or he simply issues a Presidential Order declaring all other parties illegal and demands the Army enforce it? Unless it was something totally and egregiously illegal, I just don't see Sherman "taking the law into his own hands," so to speak.
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