Strangest thing I could think of.

Haggis

Alright, so I had an inspiration for an ATL in which instead of raiding The Emirate of Cordoba in 844 the Vikingr were treated as guests by Abd ar-Rahman II. I sort of see the Vikingr getting ready to land their drakkar and Arab diplomats after hearing of the fearsome Vikingr hordes attacking others rushing out and possibly yelling at them in Greek, Latin, or even Norse welcoming them.

So a new era of trade opens up with the Cordobans and the Norse. They're both shrewd traders and occasional raiders, decent warriors and parts of their culture are very similiar. I could see the Norse adapting to the wudu (the cleansing or washing of the hands with water or sand before prayer in Islam) really easily, they were a mostly hygienic peoples by that period's standards anyways.

It might be a long shot but Muslim Norsemen would be really cool. Not only that but I could see the Norse carrying Arab style bureacracy back to the lands they inhabit, Scandinavia, bits of Ireland and the British Isles in general.

So, what y'all think?

And any advice you could give me would be great.
 

Nicole

The problem is drink- the Vikings were really into beer, and if I recall the Cordobans belonged to the school of Islam that all alcoholic drinks were against Islam, as opposed to the idea that only wine was prohibited.
 

Haggis

I was thinking that the Vikings would make their own little heretical sect of Islam. Of course this leads to some conflict but when those goddamn drunks are your only real allies you go ahead and let them drink.

Pork might be a problem too.
 

WhatIsAUserName

The Dutch and the Swedes have a lot more in common than the Vikings and the Cordobans.

Actually, a Dutch-Kalmar Empire would be more likely and much more plausible.
 

EvolvedSaurian

WhatIsAUserName said:
The Dutch and the Swedes have a lot more in common than the Vikings and the Cordobans.

Actually, a Dutch-Kalmar Empire would be more likely and much more plausible.
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Where were you when I knew what I was going to do?
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
Imajin said:
The problem is drink- the Vikings were really into beer, and if I recall the Cordobans belonged to the school of Islam that all alcoholic drinks were against Islam, as opposed to the idea that only wine was prohibited.
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Andalusians generally (though not exclusively) subscribed to the Maliki school of Islamic jurisprudence. Their position on alcohol was more or less identical to the other ones, with the exception of the Hanafis (who were adopted by the Abbassids and the Ottomans), who were more liberal than the rest. Because Muslims can associate with any of these four schools, the Vikings may well decide they're Hanafis, even if the Cordobans were Malikis, and suffer nonetheless.

Mind you, Muslims most places don't generally produce alcohol, but Hanafis can buy it from Christians, who were practically omnipresent in the Muslim world at this time. The word for monastery, der, became practically synonymous with "tavern."
 

Haggis

Leo Caesius said:
The word for monastery, der, became practically synonymous with "tavern."
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Ah, the legacies of Christianity are glorious indeed.

And you do have a point, Hanafi Islam would be better for the Norse than any other. They could adapt to it easily enough because it still allowed for the consumption of alcohol.

At least they aren't Wahhabis.
 

Haggis

Well, it's not like people repress information. I'm sure a few Hanafi Muslims would be in Cordoba and once the Vikings discover it they'd take to it well.
 

Fabilius

While I can imagine a few norse converting to Islam I can´t see it spreading to Scandinavia. What would be Germany´s reaction of a muslim Denmark springing up? (The Danes were the ones that went mostly southwest).

A small sect would be different, and maybe a king converting would be interesting, it wouldn´t last, but it would change history though and make a good story...
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
Imajin said:
Though, if the Cordobans are Maliki, how would the Vikings find out about the Hanafi school?
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They were almost assuredly there. All four of the schools have representation (to varying degrees) throughout the Islamic world, although most Muslims espouse the Hanafi school, followed second by the Malikiyyah. Some areas are heavily associated with a particular school, to be sure, and often a state will espouse a particular school for court cases involving it, but individual Muslims are free to associate with any of them and can even switch on a whim if they feel that they might obtain a more favorable legal ruling. In Islamic capitals, the major mosques and madrasas often have four iwans overlooking a central courtyard, in each of which the members of the four schools meet separately to discuss fiqh.

Also note that religious minorities are exempt from these schools as they follow their own legislation with regard to these matters.
 

Smaug

Might not the Vikings also receive Muslim influences through thier trading networks Through Russia to the Black Sea. I seem to recall reading that Viking traders were not uncommon in Constantinople.

Also, while they were accomplished warriors, they were also exceptional traders. I have an old historical atlas, that shows Viking trade routes almost completely surrounding Europe.


As far as thier religion, being somewhat pagan, it might be noted that millions of animistic/pagan types were converted to Islam in Africa, and the Indian Ocean(Indonesia).
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
Has The Long Ships been on again? A great movie that I've yet to see all the way through. I truly don't understand why they don't play it more often

(Now that means it will prolly be the only thing on for the next month)

I'm not sure if welcoming would help, esp at the last minute. Vikings would trade if they had to and raid if they could, and if they're all ready to storm ashore that indicates they see the area as ripe for raiding. A welcome might not really help there.

I know the Byzantines hired lots of Viking mercernaries (Varangian Guard) Did the muslims?
 

arctic warrior

The Vikings were practical peoples, when in England or frankish lands they'd be ready to follow local practises if it would help them along. If they had initiated trade with the Muslim world in the West they might also have done so. But once swords were needed they'd use them. And conversion had to have a practical purpose, like keeping your neighbors from attacking you.
But they did trade in the eastern part of the muslim world, a lot of arab, kufi, coins are found in Scandinavia.
And they formed a bodyguard for the Byzantine emperor - the Vaeringa. Originally a force borrowed from a Kievian Rus pretender, who had regained his throne and were in a quandry as what to do with this bunch of warriors.
So given need the Vikings might adopt Islam on pretence, but I don't see it take root. Drink was too well founded in Scandinavia.
And I especially don't see a king convert, unless his kingdom was in Iberia or southern France and threatened by conquest.
 
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