The F-16 is one of the most widely exported aircraft of modern times, with operators on every continent except Australasia and Antarctica. What if the export restrictions brought in by Jimmy Carter in 1977 had stayed in effect, and the F-16 was only made available for export in the deliberately-crippled F-16/79 form?
WI: No F-16 Exports
- Thread starter BlueTrousers
- Start date
Ramontxo
Donor
Dassault buys Jimmy Carter a chateau in the Loire next to Duncan Sandys * one...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_Defence_White_Paper
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_Defence_White_Paper
Tovarich
Banned
Norththrop might throw in a housewarming present if this gets the F20 up & running into production.
the French President Mitterand would give Jimmy Carter, the Medal Legion of Honour - Grand Cross
for his outstanding contributions to French Aerospace Industry
It's the highest decoration in France
in mean time Dassault Group would be one of biggest Aerospace Company in World a rival to US industry like Boeing.
for his outstanding contributions to French Aerospace Industry
It's the highest decoration in France
in mean time Dassault Group would be one of biggest Aerospace Company in World a rival to US industry like Boeing.
Assuming the ban only applied to the F16, then I would expect more F18 and possibly F14 and F15 sales
IOTL a number of nations including Canada, Australia, Spain, Finland, Switzerland etc purchased the F18. The F18L version and the F20 may also have gotten more traction of the F16 wasn't available for export. Presumably some non US air craft would have gotten more traction as well.If the ban applied to the F14, F15, F16, and F18 then I would expect to see the F20 get more traction and non US airplanes to get much more traction.
Also does the ban apply to NATO countries and nations such as Australia and Israel ?
The F16/79 was actually faster than the F100 powered version despite having less thrust. The F16/79 had a fully adjustable air intake.
Inferior at anything most airforces would actually want to use the plane for though. Top speed is rarely used, supersonic air combat is almost unknown, radius of action with a bomb load absolutely critical.
The F-16 replaced the J-79 powered F-4 amoung others. The F-4 was a Mach 2.2 aircraft, but with a bomb load it would need full throttle plus afterburner to stay over 450 knots in a tight turn. Tight turns can be important when SAM is out to play, or his friends MIG and SUKHOI.
The F-16 - and other teen series fighters apparently - were dramatically better at things like that and the engines were a major part of that difference.
TFSmith121
Banned
So the Deal of the Century goes forward, but non-NATO
So the Deal of the Century goes forward for NATO and NATO-equivalents, but non-NATO (and equivalent) allies (meaning Japan, the ROK, Australia, etc.) don't get access to the F-16?
Does this hold true for other post-1976 procurements of the '70s generation of US tactical aircraft, as well? ('14, '15, '18, A-10, etc?)
And where do Israel and the pro-US Muslim states (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, etc.) fall?
If so, then buy stock in Northrop, because the F-20 will be in mass production ... unless you're banning export of the Tigershark, as well.
In which case, the Arabs, Pakistanis, etc will all be visiting France.
The Israelis are up a creek.
Best,
So the Deal of the Century goes forward for NATO and NATO-equivalents, but non-NATO (and equivalent) allies (meaning Japan, the ROK, Australia, etc.) don't get access to the F-16?
Does this hold true for other post-1976 procurements of the '70s generation of US tactical aircraft, as well? ('14, '15, '18, A-10, etc?)
And where do Israel and the pro-US Muslim states (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, etc.) fall?
If so, then buy stock in Northrop, because the F-20 will be in mass production ... unless you're banning export of the Tigershark, as well.
In which case, the Arabs, Pakistanis, etc will all be visiting France.
The Israelis are up a creek.
Best,
If Carter had imposed the ban on F-16 exports, the result is that the Dassault Mirage F1E powered by the SNECMA M53 engine becomes a huge export success, with many NATO air forces adopting this version of the plane. Production of the F-16 after the original 650 planes ordered for the USAF continues at a lower level, mostly with newer versions entering service in the early 1990's and beyond replacing the original F-16A/B models.
Yes sactoman,
And the USAF would pay a much higher price per F-16 because of the need to amortize tooling costs over a shorter production run.
If the USA refused to export any teen-series fighters, they would lose their influence over another dozen nations, because they could not stop the flow of spare parts when local dictators got uppity.
Dassault would sell thousands more Mirages.
Saab would sell thousands more Grippens.
Mikoyan ...
Sukhoi ...
Yakovlev ...
British Aerospace
Meanwhile, smaller nations like Israel, India, Canada, etc. would build specialized fighters for their own missions.
And the USAF would pay a much higher price per F-16 because of the need to amortize tooling costs over a shorter production run.
If the USA refused to export any teen-series fighters, they would lose their influence over another dozen nations, because they could not stop the flow of spare parts when local dictators got uppity.
Dassault would sell thousands more Mirages.
Saab would sell thousands more Grippens.
Mikoyan ...
Sukhoi ...
Yakovlev ...
British Aerospace
Meanwhile, smaller nations like Israel, India, Canada, etc. would build specialized fighters for their own missions.
Nope, lol, too late for us alas, remember the Avro Arrow?
. New Dassault plant in Montreal would be my guess, actually, as a useful way of selling to the rest of the Commonwealth and covering domestic political concerns. (Assuming Carter + successor ban covers the whole spectrum of American fighters.)It was very nearly Australasia too. New Zealand had F-16's signed, sealed and almost all but delivered in 1999 when a change of government saw the contract cancelled.
Since F-16 sales in competition with the F-20 were a key factor in the latter's demise, I'd say F-20 sales on a large scale would be a certainty.
The restrictions applies to all US front line military equipment - exports had to be less capable than the version in US service. So no F-16A/B, no F-15, no F-18... I'm not sure whether NATO/ANZUS would be affected in the same way, but Iran certainly would have been.
Archibald
Banned
If the F-16 never exports then no deal of the century - for the record, 348 F-16s to four european nations.
In this world the Mirage 2000 would not exists, because as of 1973-74 (before the deal of the century went to the F-16) Dassault next light fighter beyond the Mirage III was to be a Mirage F1 with the more powerful M53, the F1E. It was killed when it lost the Deal of the Century, and the 2000 flew in April 1978.
Had the F-16 not been exported in time, the Mirage F1E would have entered service with the Armée de l'Air and the Belgian Air Force - a Belgian F-1E deal was nearly settled in the fall of 1973, but a change in government gave the F-16 a welcome relieve (it flew only in February 1974).
I think the Netherlands, Danemark and Norway would still buy american (F-18L ? F-20 ?) , in the name of NATO.