WI the office of Caliph still existed.

1.WI rather than abolish the caliphate, Ataturk just banishes the Caliph from turkey.

Or

2. WI the Caliph leaves turkey and refuses to except the abolishment and continued to style himself as Caliph.

Or

3. One of the Caliphate Conferences succeeds and appoints a Caliph.

What would happen and how would it effect Islam in the years afterwards
 
Isn't it wierd that before the summer of 2014. this turn of events would have been declared ASB on this site?

And actually with reason.
The proclamation, while "understandable" in hindsight (in the sense of being somewhat consistent of what emerges as Da'ish "vision", insofar that is a coherent set of beliefs), was utter, total madness in terms of established Islamic views of the Caliphate, both medieval and modern, including jihadi ones.
The vast majority of Muslim scholars regard it, to put it mildly, as highly illegitimate (and rightly so, since according to Classical theory the legitimacy rests upon them granting it).
I admit that when Al-Baghdadi declared himself to be "Ibrahim I" or whatever, I first thought of a particularly perverse form of trolling.
 
I doubt if a timeline used a declaration of Caliphate in a similar context - i.e. had everyone in the world dismiss it out of hand - everyone would cry ASB with the same fervor. But it is unlikely, yes. Reality does that.
 
And actually with reason.
The proclamation, while "understandable" in hindsight (in the sense of being somewhat consistent of what emerges as Da'ish "vision", insofar that is a coherent set of beliefs), was utter, total madness in terms of established Islamic views of the Caliphate, both medieval and modern, including jihadi ones.
The vast majority of Muslim scholars regard it, to put it mildly, as highly illegitimate (and rightly so, since according to Classical theory the legitimacy rests upon them granting it).
I admit that when Al-Baghdadi declared himself to be "Ibrahim I" or whatever, I first thought of a particularly perverse form of trolling.


You are right, the majority of Ulema have rejected Dawlah, however many Ulema support Dawlah now and still do. Baghdadi himself was Ulema for Al Qaeda for instance himself. With that said, many of these Ulema are young and seem to have come from nowhere, and the lack of support from Muhammad al-Maqdisi hurt them. However the illegitimacy of Dawlah is highly complex and is a difficult topic.

The essence of the discussion is Tawheed al-Haakimiyyah and is it independent of Tawheed ar-Raboobiyyah. Tawheed al-Haakimiyyah is that Allah is the sole Hakim (the only judge and arbitrator) and his law (Sharia) is above all, further he and his Deen is the only Tashree (legislator). Tawheed ar-Raboobiyyah is that Allah is the one who has dominion over all and is the giver and taker of life.

The proclamation of Dawlah and Al Qaeda is this: that the Saudi Royal family has betrayed the Ummah and submitted to man made laws and committed Istibdal (changing the law of Allah) and Istihal (making helal what Allah made haram), and are thus Kufr. Those upon the methodology of Osama Bin Laden used to say, that Saudi Arabia has committed Kufr Akbar and are Munafiq because they allowed citizens to take Ribbah (loans on interest) and they allowed Kufr soldiers into the land of the holy Mosque (Mecca). These arguments were refuted by Shaykh Ibn Baz in the late 90s in his series of debates with Osama Bin Laden.

The claim of Dawlah is a bit more complex. They say that Kufr can be committed by the tongue, limbs and the heart (which is legitimate) but the way they apply this ruling against the Saudi regime is ingenious. In Islam, one cannot commit Istibdal and say that another law is above the law of Allah (the Shariah). Dawlah says clearly that by signing the UN charter, which says that the international law is above the law in a nation, is Istibdal with the limbs because the Saudi family accepted it by writing and thus have committed open Kufr Akbar. This is definitely a squirmy situation indeed.

Also there are different terms upon which Khilafah is established and the Ahl ul Hali Wal A'qd are slippery definitions. For instance, Dawlah gives the comparison that if the Mahdi and Isa were establishing Khilafah and if none of the people of influence give the Bayait, does that make their Khilafah invalid? This is again a difficult debate. As well, they combat arguments of the worldwide theory that a Khilafah has to have complete power over the Ummah.

Even if/when Dawlah is defeated, the movement is clear, the ideals of al-Haakimiyyah are becoming more widespread and the debate is only increasing. Interesting topic in my opinion.
 

guinazacity

Banned
You are right, the majority of Ulema have rejected Dawlah, however many Ulema support Dawlah now and still do. Baghdadi himself was Ulema for Al Qaeda for instance himself. With that said, many of these Ulema are young and seem to have come from nowhere, and the lack of support from Muhammad al-Maqdisi hurt them. However the illegitimacy of Dawlah is highly complex and is a difficult topic.

The essence of the discussion is Tawheed al-Haakimiyyah and is it independent of Tawheed ar-Raboobiyyah. Tawheed al-Haakimiyyah is that Allah is the sole Hakim (the only judge and arbitrator) and his law (Sharia) is above all, further he and his Deen is the only Tashree (legislator). Tawheed ar-Raboobiyyah is that Allah is the one who has dominion over all and is the giver and taker of life.

The proclamation of Dawlah and Al Qaeda is this: that the Saudi Royal family has betrayed the Ummah and submitted to man made laws and committed Istibdal (changing the law of Allah) and Istihal (making helal what Allah made haram), and are thus Kufr. Those upon the methodology of Osama Bin Laden used to say, that Saudi Arabia has committed Kufr Akbar and are Munafiq because they allowed citizens to take Ribbah (loans on interest) and they allowed Kufr soldiers into the land of the holy Mosque (Mecca). These arguments were refuted by Shaykh Ibn Baz in the late 90s in his series of debates with Osama Bin Laden.

The claim of Dawlah is a bit more complex. They say that Kufr can be committed by the tongue, limbs and the heart (which is legitimate) but the way they apply this ruling against the Saudi regime is ingenious. In Islam, one cannot commit Istibdal and say that another law is above the law of Allah (the Shariah). Dawlah says clearly that by signing the UN charter, which says that the international law is above the law in a nation, is Istibdal with the limbs because the Saudi family accepted it by writing and thus have committed open Kufr Akbar. This is definitely a squirmy situation indeed.

Also there are different terms upon which Khilafah is established and the Ahl ul Hali Wal A'qd are slippery definitions. For instance, Dawlah gives the comparison that if the Mahdi and Isa were establishing Khilafah and if none of the people of influence give the Bayait, does that make their Khilafah invalid? This is again a difficult debate. As well, they combat arguments of the worldwide theory that a Khilafah has to have complete power over the Ummah.

Even if/when Dawlah is defeated, the movement is clear, the ideals of al-Haakimiyyah are becoming more widespread and the debate is only increasing. Interesting topic in my opinion.

It's fascinating when someone that clearly knows his shit enters a discussion.
 
1.WI rather than abolish the caliphate, Ataturk just banishes the Caliph from turkey.

Or

2. WI the Caliph leaves turkey and refuses to except the abolishment and continued to style himself as Caliph.

Or

3. One of the Caliphate Conferences succeeds and appoints a Caliph.

What would happen and how would it effect Islam in the years afterwards

If we can have the British help the Hashemites hold on to the Hejaz, this is possible - maybe. After the British helped him oust the Ottomans, he declared himself King of the Arabs, and later in the 20s declared himself Caliph. As far as I'm aware, no one really cared.

Now, if the Saudis stay out of the Hejaz, and if Hussein's sons manage to become kings of various places, it seems somewhat possible to have, in theory, Iraq, Syria (including what is now Jordan, and possibly Lebanon and Israel [and the Palestinian Territories]), and maybe even the Nejd and Gulf States pay lip service to this largely powerless Caliph.

But a real Caliph, who is both a powerful secular ruler and someone that people actually listen to religiously? Seems unlikely.
 
You are right, the majority of Ulema have rejected Dawlah, however many Ulema support Dawlah now and still do. Baghdadi himself was Ulema for Al Qaeda for instance himself. With that said, many of these Ulema are young and seem to have come from nowhere, and the lack of support from Muhammad al-Maqdisi hurt them. However the illegitimacy of Dawlah is highly complex and is a difficult topic.

The essence of the discussion is Tawheed al-Haakimiyyah and is it independent of Tawheed ar-Raboobiyyah. Tawheed al-Haakimiyyah is that Allah is the sole Hakim (the only judge and arbitrator) and his law (Sharia) is above all, further he and his Deen is the only Tashree (legislator). Tawheed ar-Raboobiyyah is that Allah is the one who has dominion over all and is the giver and taker of life.

The proclamation of Dawlah and Al Qaeda is this: that the Saudi Royal family has betrayed the Ummah and submitted to man made laws and committed Istibdal (changing the law of Allah) and Istihal (making helal what Allah made haram), and are thus Kufr. Those upon the methodology of Osama Bin Laden used to say, that Saudi Arabia has committed Kufr Akbar and are Munafiq because they allowed citizens to take Ribbah (loans on interest) and they allowed Kufr soldiers into the land of the holy Mosque (Mecca). These arguments were refuted by Shaykh Ibn Baz in the late 90s in his series of debates with Osama Bin Laden.

The claim of Dawlah is a bit more complex. They say that Kufr can be committed by the tongue, limbs and the heart (which is legitimate) but the way they apply this ruling against the Saudi regime is ingenious. In Islam, one cannot commit Istibdal and say that another law is above the law of Allah (the Shariah). Dawlah says clearly that by signing the UN charter, which says that the international law is above the law in a nation, is Istibdal with the limbs because the Saudi family accepted it by writing and thus have committed open Kufr Akbar. This is definitely a squirmy situation indeed.

Also there are different terms upon which Khilafah is established and the Ahl ul Hali Wal A'qd are slippery definitions. For instance, Dawlah gives the comparison that if the Mahdi and Isa were establishing Khilafah and if none of the people of influence give the Bayait, does that make their Khilafah invalid? This is again a difficult debate. As well, they combat arguments of the worldwide theory that a Khilafah has to have complete power over the Ummah.

Even if/when Dawlah is defeated, the movement is clear, the ideals of al-Haakimiyyah are becoming more widespread and the debate is only increasing. Interesting topic in my opinion.

It is certanly interesting and complex.

But from the standpoint of the tradition, as I understand it, it is not difficult.

(I am of course referring exclusively to Sunni views here, the only ones that are relevant here).

Your description of doctrinal issues involved in the discussion is absolutely correct, although I do not understand why the Saudi legitimacy is concerned since they never formally claimed the Caliphate. It is true that who exactly the Ahl al-Hall wa al-'aqd are supposed to be. I assume that it's probably safe that most authors had the Ulema, the notables of the community, or both, in mind.
As detailed below, I would take that they are the people whose allegiance to the Caliph guarantees obedience in any given circumstance, but it is a matter of contention.

The sources are pretty clear that Khilafa is defined essentially, given some requirements (for which Ibrahim I may arguably be a poor fit anyway) by the fact of exercising it, that means that means, by being representative of a decent approximation of a consensus of competent Muslims; better said, a Caliph is such, among other things, by his ability to be generally obeyed, and therefore by his broad recognition as a Caliph worth obedience.
This is clearly not the case of Da'ish, although, to be honest, they use the argument in reverse: since the Caliphate is a necessary requirement of religious law (a point which tradition tends to support) whoever refuses obedience to their Caliph, once established, makes themselves apostate in their logic. In this way, they can argue that their Caliphate actually has the obedience/consensus of "real" Muslims. It's circular, real Muslims in this line being the ones who obey their Caliph.
But again, tradition allows for a situation where power in general was seen as legitimate primarily by the fact of exercising itself, so it is not entirely pulling thing out of thin air in this case.
Not that tradition generally condones declaring disagreements about who sould be Caliph grounds for takfir though.
More generally, talking about "Dawla Islamiyya" in the context of the traditional debate about the Caliphate is ... well, the word I would use is "ungrammatical". "Dawla" means "state" in Modern Standard Arabic, but it means "Dynasty" in the traditional political language (Classical Arabic) in which the discussion was crafted. They had a word for what the Caliph ruled over, but that had never anything to do with the concept of "state": that word was "umma", that is, the community of believers. This in my view betrays a major conceptual disconnect with what the Caliphate used to be and to mean historically.

Of course, as I am not a qualified Muslim interpreter of the tradition, my views on the matter are not religiously autoritative.
 
But a real Caliph, who is both a powerful secular ruler and someone that people actually listen to religiously? Seems unlikely.

That particular sort of Caliph was nowhere to be found long before 1924 though - the Abbasid Caliph had usually ceased to be "powerful secular rulers" about 935 AD, and were largely not listened to in religious matters since roughly a century prior than that.
It's more complicated that of course, but in the last millennium, most (Sunni) Caliphs have been closer to powerless as Caliphs. Some were powerful secular rulers, such as some of the Almohads and Ottoman rulers who bothered claiming the title, but even those were hardly ever acknowledged any religious authority.
A Hashimite modern Caliphate would likely continue this state of affairs. Also, their legitimacy would be questioned in many corners on the basis of the Hashimite/British relationship.
 
It is certanly interesting and complex.

But from the standpoint of the tradition, as I understand it, it is not difficult.

(I am of course referring exclusively to Sunni views here, the only ones that are relevant here).

Your description of doctrinal issues involved in the discussion is absolutely correct, although I do not understand why the Saudi legitimacy is concerned since they never formally claimed the Caliphate. It is true that who exactly the Ahl al-Hall wa al-'aqd are supposed to be. I assume that it's probably safe that most authors had the Ulema, the notables of the community, or both, in mind.
As detailed below, I would take that they are the people whose allegiance to the Caliph guarantees obedience in any given circumstance, but it is a matter of contention.

The sources are pretty clear that Khilafa is defined essentially, given some requirements (for which Ibrahim I may arguably be a poor fit anyway) by the fact of exercising it, that means that means, by being representative of a decent approximation of a consensus of competent Muslims; better said, a Caliph is such, among other things, by his ability to be generally obeyed, and therefore by his broad recognition as a Caliph worth obedience.
This is clearly not the case of Da'ish, although, to be honest, they use the argument in reverse: since the Caliphate is a necessary requirement of religious law (a point which tradition tends to support) whoever refuses obedience to their Caliph, once established, makes themselves apostate in their logic. In this way, they can argue that their Caliphate actually has the obedience/consensus of "real" Muslims. It's circular, real Muslims in this line being the ones who obey their Caliph.
But again, tradition allows for a situation where power in general was seen as legitimate primarily by the fact of exercising itself, so it is not entirely pulling thing out of thin air in this case.
Not that tradition generally condones declaring disagreements about who sould be Caliph grounds for takfir though.
More generally, talking about "Dawla Islamiyya" in the context of the traditional debate about the Caliphate is ... well, the word I would use is "ungrammatical". "Dawla" means "state" in Modern Standard Arabic, but it means "Dynasty" in the traditional political language (Classical Arabic) in which the discussion was crafted. They had a word for what the Caliph ruled over, but that had never anything to do with the concept of "state": that word was "umma", that is, the community of believers. This in my view betrays a major conceptual disconnect with what the Caliphate used to be and to mean historically.

Of course, as I am not a qualified Muslim interpreter of the tradition, my views on the matter are not religiously autoritative.



First let me dispel some notions expressed in your response, mainly the ideal of rejecting the Saudi regime (which I don't, I'm only speaking from the prospective of those upon the methodology of Dawlah or Al Qaeda or others who prescribe to them, like Mizanur Rahman Abu Baraa).

The Khilafah is not the only ruler who is to be held accountable by the Shariah, and it is not their legitimacy of Khilafah that is in question but their role as a Wilayet and as being apart of Dar al-Islam as a political entity. For instance, the case of Hajaj Bin Yusuf, Hajaj was killed and had Takfir proclaimed upon him for breaking Tawheed al-Asma wa Sifaat (save the best names for Allah). But, Hajaj was only a governor under the Khilafah of the day (Umayyad) and thus the same ruling must be applied to Wilayet of today and the past, this Hukm (ruling) was supported by Ibn Taymiyyah and by Ibn Baz and near all Ulema. Thus the Takfiri are only following the Sunnah when they hold Wilayet accountable for their Tashree and being Taghoot (if they are).

Again, let me phrase the argument of these people quite clearly. They proclaim that only in the land free from Taghoot and upon the law of Allah can be Dar al-Islam and is the land of the Hijra, thus one cannot make Hijra (emigrate in the sense of migrate for good as was spoken of in terms of Arabic literature) to any state other than the one upon the Shariah. This does not meant that they believe all people outside are Kufr, but that all outside are Kufr entities because they commit Istibdal and Istihal, but individuals are not Kufr (thus these people are not Khawarij, as the Khawarij said that the belief was in one block, if the state wasn't Islam then they were Kufr). Thus they must make Hijra to Dar al-Islam from Dar al-Harb.

In several discussions the argument was then brought that, Muhammad said one must make Hijra to Mekkah. The response of these Takfiri (I don't call them Takfiri as a reference to Khawarij but to the fact the proclaim Takfir on the Saudi gov.) was that as the Quran says, that the Kaaba was the worship house of Allah since the beginning and was a place of Hijra for all messengers, however it was then made Dar al-Kufr under the control of the Quryaish, and in the same way Daesh says for the Saudi government. Until it is the land of Tawheed and Allah is the only Tashree, it is devoid of the Deen in terms of entities.

Now on the terms of power and the Khilafah, it is argued by Dawlah simply. The argument of the worldwide model is only a new invention (which it is) and that the Khilafah must have a proclamation, power over a defined area, support from Ulema and upon the Tawheed. The added requirements are not needed. The argument against the worldwide model is that: In the time of Abu Bakr, the Muslim revolted and started a Fitnah, does this invalidate his Khilafah that the Munafiq of these areas rebelled? Then even in the time of Muhammad (SAW) there were Muslim Bedouin living outside the Khilafah and thus not protected by the Khilafah, does this invalidate their Khilafah? Dawlah says that the Muslim outside of their territory are like the Bedouin of those days who were Muslim but outside the boundaries of Dar al-Islam. Thus the grammatical argument you gave in the Ummah is somewhat complex as one would have to say that Muhammad and Abu Bakr or any of the Rashidun failed to rule over the entire Ummah thus is their power invalid?

Under these people there are only two camps the camp of Tawheed and the camp of Shirk (which is correct in Islam) and that anyone who prescribes to law other than Allah and his Shariah that person is in the camp of Shirk. But the one state who upholds the Deen and wholly prescribes to Allah and his Shariah, if alone, is the Khilafah by default and represents the entire Ummah whether they have control over them or not.

Now simply as a warning (not saying you do any of this, just more me ranting) the linguistic meaning of something in Arabic (whether classical or MSA) does not always translate perfectly to the meaning as used in Fiqh. For example the word الطاغوت (At-Taghoot) comes from the word Tagha which means to transgress the limits. So one would say my "The water hath Tagha from thy cup". Therefore the Taghoot is one who goes beyond the limit. Thus linguistically one who pours a cup and it overflows in your lap, is a Taghoot, but the Fiqh meaning is different as you most likely know. A Taghoot is one who goes over the limit in terms of rulership and prescribes to him the attributes of Allah whether that be the names or taking the laws for himself.
 
Isn't it wierd that before the summer of 2014. this turn of events would have been declared ASB on this site?
Any man can declare himself to be a Caliph.Whether a significant amount of people adheres to him is a totally different matter.In ISIS' case,only the most extreme nuts adheres to them.
 
Would this Caliphate be a colonial creation or an indigenous one? At the time, the only viable independent indigenous caliphate candidates are the Saudis and the Zaidi imams of North Yemen (before anyone mentions the Quraishi* qualifications, don't forget the longest caliphate of the Ottomans, plus), this is before the normative reformist Sunni Islam became the new orthodox post-WWI.

If we're going for colonial candidates, "traditional" bloodline candidates clearly both have a British or French backing, the Alaouite sultans of Morocco and the Hashemite sharifs of Mecca. Non bloodline, but popular "large" Muslim monarchs the Brits also have are the Mohammed-Ali dynasty sultans of Egypt and the Sudan, as well as the Nizam of Hyderbad (who, like the Ottoman initial claimant of the caliphate, is married to a daughter or granddaughter of the final caliph, although this could be arranged with an Egyptian prince, or any other.)

If we want a caliphate that still exists, unfortunately, I think it must be largely, or indirectly, a colonial creation. One instance I find fascinating could be with larger communication between the Ottomans and the British in the final weeks and months before Ataturk abolishes the caliphate, if they see the writing on the wall, to flee to Egypt, and establish an Ottoman dynasty caliphate like the Papacy in Cairo (or even in Jerusalem, if the Egyptian sultans don't want them around.)

This existed before under the Ayyubid dynasty of Saladin when the Abbasids remained figurehead caliphs, but the Ayyubids were the political sultans. It is precisely this sort-of separation of Mosque and Dawlah that could have serious and important ramifications for the future socio-political development of the region. Moreover, if the remaining candidate is an Ottoman, there is no need (or excuse) for anyone, including the Wahhabis, to not at least pay lip-service.
 
First let me dispel some notions expressed in your response, mainly the ideal of rejecting the Saudi regime (which I don't, I'm only speaking from the prospective of those upon the methodology of Dawlah or Al Qaeda or others who prescribe to them, like Mizanur Rahman Abu Baraa).

The Khilafah is not the only ruler who is to be held accountable by the Shariah, and it is not their legitimacy of Khilafah that is in question but their role as a Wilayet and as being apart of Dar al-Islam as a political entity. For instance, the case of Hajaj Bin Yusuf, Hajaj was killed and had Takfir proclaimed upon him for breaking Tawheed al-Asma wa Sifaat (save the best names for Allah). But, Hajaj was only a governor under the Khilafah of the day (Umayyad) and thus the same ruling must be applied to Wilayet of today and the past, this Hukm (ruling) was supported by Ibn Taymiyyah and by Ibn Baz and near all Ulema. Thus the Takfiri are only following the Sunnah when they hold Wilayet accountable for their Tashree and being Taghoot (if they are).

Again, let me phrase the argument of these people quite clearly. They proclaim that only in the land free from Taghoot and upon the law of Allah can be Dar al-Islam and is the land of the Hijra, thus one cannot make Hijra (emigrate in the sense of migrate for good as was spoken of in terms of Arabic literature) to any state other than the one upon the Shariah. This does not meant that they believe all people outside are Kufr, but that all outside are Kufr entities because they commit Istibdal and Istihal, but individuals are not Kufr (thus these people are not Khawarij, as the Khawarij said that the belief was in one block, if the state wasn't Islam then they were Kufr). Thus they must make Hijra to Dar al-Islam from Dar al-Harb.

In several discussions the argument was then brought that, Muhammad said one must make Hijra to Mekkah. The response of these Takfiri (I don't call them Takfiri as a reference to Khawarij but to the fact the proclaim Takfir on the Saudi gov.) was that as the Quran says, that the Kaaba was the worship house of Allah since the beginning and was a place of Hijra for all messengers, however it was then made Dar al-Kufr under the control of the Quryaish, and in the same way Daesh says for the Saudi government. Until it is the land of Tawheed and Allah is the only Tashree, it is devoid of the Deen in terms of entities.

Fine, but all of the above, while correct, has logically no bearing with the notion of Khilafa.

Now on the terms of power and the Khilafah, it is argued by Dawlah simply. The argument of the worldwide model is only a new invention (which it is) and that the Khilafah must have a proclamation, power over a defined area, support from Ulema and upon the Tawheed. The added requirements are not needed. The argument against the worldwide model is that: In the time of Abu Bakr, the Muslim revolted and started a Fitnah, does this invalidate his Khilafah that the Munafiq of these areas rebelled? Then even in the time of Muhammad (SAW) there were Muslim Bedouin living outside the Khilafah and thus not protected by the Khilafah, does this invalidate their Khilafah? Dawlah says that the Muslim outside of their territory are like the Bedouin of those days who were Muslim but outside the boundaries of Dar al-Islam. Thus the grammatical argument you gave in the Ummah is somewhat complex as one would have to say that Muhammad and Abu Bakr or any of the Rashidun failed to rule over the entire Ummah thus is their power invalid?

Of course it is more complicated.
However, traditional sources do not claim that the Caliph has to rule over all Muslims to be legitimate, only that he has to be recognized as legitimate by their general consensus, manifested as obedience (expressed by qualified members of the Umma; it was never meant to be a democracy). While ruling the whole Umma is not required, the Caliph is expected to beiable to represent it as whole (by some sort of mutual consent of both parties, although the exact mechanisms are left unstated in the sources I am familiar with).
This is again not the case with Da'ish.

But the one state who upholds the Deen and wholly prescribes to Allah and his Shariah, if alone, is the Khilafah by default and represents the entire Ummah whether they have control over them or not.

This is, however, a necessarily modern view; it makes use of a concept of "state" and of its relationship with law that was unknown to the Classical tradition as I understand it.



Now simply as a warning (not saying you do any of this, just more me ranting) the linguistic meaning of something in Arabic (whether classical or MSA) does not always translate perfectly to the meaning as used in Fiqh. For example the word الطاغوت (At-Taghoot) comes from the word Tagha which means to transgress the limits. So one would say my "The water hath Tagha from thy cup". Therefore the Taghoot is one who goes beyond the limit. Thus linguistically one who pours a cup and it overflows in your lap, is a Taghoot, but the Fiqh meaning is different as you most likely know. A Taghoot is one who goes over the limit in terms of rulership and prescribes to him the attributes of Allah whether that be the names or taking the laws for himself.

Absolutely correct.
(Many would argue that Da'ish would fit the bill to be defined Taghoot in this sense, actually).
 
Would this Caliphate be a colonial creation or an indigenous one? At the time, the only viable independent indigenous caliphate candidates are the Saudis and the Zaidi imams of North Yemen (before anyone mentions the Quraishi* qualifications, don't forget the longest caliphate of the Ottomans, plus), this is before the normative reformist Sunni Islam became the new orthodox post-WWI.

If we're going for colonial candidates, "traditional" bloodline candidates clearly both have a British or French backing, the Alaouite sultans of Morocco and the Hashemite sharifs of Mecca. Non bloodline, but popular "large" Muslim monarchs the Brits also have are the Mohammed-Ali dynasty sultans of Egypt and the Sudan, as well as the Nizam of Hyderbad (who, like the Ottoman initial claimant of the caliphate, is married to a daughter or granddaughter of the final caliph, although this could be arranged with an Egyptian prince, or any other.)

If we want a caliphate that still exists, unfortunately, I think it must be largely, or indirectly, a colonial creation. One instance I find fascinating could be with larger communication between the Ottomans and the British in the final weeks and months before Ataturk abolishes the caliphate, if they see the writing on the wall, to flee to Egypt, and establish an Ottoman dynasty caliphate like the Papacy in Cairo (or even in Jerusalem, if the Egyptian sultans don't want them around.)

This existed before under the Ayyubid dynasty of Saladin when the Abbasids remained figurehead caliphs, but the Ayyubids were the political sultans. It is precisely this sort-of separation of Mosque and Dawlah that could have serious and important ramifications for the future socio-political development of the region. Moreover, if the remaining candidate is an Ottoman, there is no need (or excuse) for anyone, including the Wahhabis, to not at least pay lip-service.

I seem to recall that at one point the kings of Afghanistan were also under consideration, but don't quote me on that.
 
Fine, but all of the above, while correct, has logically no bearing with the notion of Khilafa.



Of course it is more complicated.
However, traditional sources do not claim that the Caliph has to rule over all Muslims to be legitimate, only that he has to be recognized as legitimate by their general consensus, manifested as obedience (expressed by qualified members of the Umma; it was never meant to be a democracy). While ruling the whole Umma is not required, the Caliph is expected to beiable to represent it as whole (by some sort of mutual consent of both parties, although the exact mechanisms are left unstated in the sources I am familiar with).
This is again not the case with Da'ish.



This is, however, a necessarily modern view; it makes use of a concept of "state" and of its relationship with law that was unknown to the Classical tradition as I understand it.





Absolutely correct.
(Many would argue that Da'ish would fit the bill to be defined Taghoot in this sense, actually).



Ehh, I wouldn't go so quick to say that Daesh is a Taghoot entity nor are they Khawarij, they are simply mistaken in many areas and much of their methods are false. Thus they are upon the Biddah in some areas, such as the killing of Alan Henning was unlawful in the terms of the Shariah as is their treatment of Shi'i. A Taghoot is not simply one who makes a mistake in Kufr Asghar but one who commits Kufr Akbar in terms of ruling, as Hajaj Bin Yusuf did. Examples of modern Taghoot would be:

Gamal Abdel Nasser
Muammar Gaddafi
Saddam Hussein
Ataturk
Hafizullah Amin
Nur Muhammad Taraki
Both Assad's
Hosni Mubarak
Etc....

I mentioned Hajaj Bin Yusef to answer your assertion that the Saudi gov shouldn't be called into question as a Wilayet as they are not Khilafah.

Ehh, the Ulema of both the past and present are clear that the Shariah is instituted at all levels. Thus the Deen of a ruler must be called into question at all times lest he be a Taghoot and oppress his subjects. Further, the Deen of Allah while no Biddah is allowed in terms of concept (you can't change the definitions, or take away meanings) there are the issues which are clear cut and those that are not. It is clear that Allah is to be worshipped alone (Tawheed ul-Uluhiyyah) this is clear, but the meaning of a state entity is not a clear cut issue and Ulema differ on the subject. Thus it is not Biddah to say that those who are outside of the Shariah are upon the falsehood and the one state with the Haqq is the Khilafah by default, meaning it is not clear whether this is Biddah or not. So saying it is modern is not really a valid argument. The most valid arguments against Daesh is its Takfir on Shaykh Makhdali and the other Islamic fighters on the ground in Syria, Afganistan, Iraq, Yemen, etc...

I also understand your argument, that the Khilafah is not the exact same as a state and that the terms such as Dawlah do not add up. But still, the Sunnah and the Ulema is clear on the issue of Tashree of Allah and his Shariah.

Also there are many terms we use in Fiqh to better explain things that were not present at the time of the Sahaba. As in, Umar Ibn al-Khattab wasn't riding around Iraq telling the people there are 4 types of Tawheed and start explaining them, no, these terms were added on by the Ulema as Tawheed was better explained and certain Kufr were committed.
 
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