Bloody Mary’s Brood - a one shot scenario

kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Bloody Mary’s Brood - a one shot scenario

The POD of this is Madeleine is married to the Duke of Ferrara..

On 1533, Anne Boleyn has given birth to a son named Edward, but in this time, Henry VIII’s marriage with Anne Boleyn is considered Bigamous, a few months after the birth of the boy, Anne Boleyn died, Eleanor of Austria dies of a miscarriage.

On 1535, Catherine of Aragon dies, but Mary Tudor was shocked of the death..

In order to secure the succession of his son of Edward and to produce more heirs, Mary Tudor is to marry the King of France Francis I as his third wife and Henry VIII would marry Renee of France which both happened, the marriage of Renee with Henry VIII would produce more heirs, her first son, Henry would become the King of England.

The marriage of Francis did produce two children before he himself hit his death, he betrothed Charles. Duke of Orleans to Jeanne of Navarre, his daughters with Mary are namely Isabella(b. 1536) and Catherine(1545), until the King produced his last breath on 1547.

On 1548, Mary Tudor would remarry again and this time to Anthony of Bourbon-La Marche, the marriage would produce three sons and a daughter, namely, Henry(b.1549), Charles(b.1552), Louis(b.1555) and Madeleine(b. 1557)

Mary Tudor’s children

Mary Tudor
m. Francis I
-Isabella
-Catherine

m.Anthony of Bourbon-La Marche
-Henry(b. 1549)
-Charles(b. 1552)
-Louis(b. 1555)
-Madeleine(b. 1557)


Henry VIII
m. Renee of France
-Henry (b. 1538)
-Anna (b. 1540)
-Arthur (b. 1542)
 
Last edited:
Jonathan

Jonathan

kasumigenx said:
Mary Tudor
m. Francis I
-Isabella
-Catherine

m.Anthony of Bourbon-La Marche
-Henry(b. 1549)
-Charles(b. 1552)
-Louis(b. 1555)
-Madeleine(b. 1557)

Henry VIII
m. Renee of France
-Henry (b. 1538)
-Anna (b. 1540)
-Arthur (b. 1542)
Click to expand...

Would Henry VIII marry off Prince Arthur of Cornwall off to one of Mary's daughters by Francis? This would give Arthur's line an even stronger claim to the French throne.

Organise the marriage of Prince Henry of Wales (Future Henry IX) to Mary Queen of Scots, same as he tried with Prince Edward in OTL.

The daughter may just be like Elizabeth and be left to her own device or who else is there for her?
 
Urbanus VII

Urbanus VII

I am interested in your idea of this scenario that makes much more united England and France in 1530s.
However, I have a doubt to be submitted. Leaving aside the fact that Henry VIII’s blood group would still condemned the King to a desperate, useless and mostly unsuccessful lifetime to seeking a male heir in the arms of any woman he would married, one after another (in their recent study, Catrina Banks Whitley and Kyra Kramer talk about the rare Kell antigen [a protein that triggers immune responses] in the Henry’s blood, inherited by Jacquetta of Luxembourg, that would make him poor in the reproductive matches, combined with McLeod syndrome) and, then, imagine a numerous progeny for the King should no longer be considered correct and feasible, Henry VIII would not have to consider it dangerous, simultaneously to his wedding with Renee of France, make to marry his daughter Mary to the King of France?
At that moment the Princess Mary is the only daughter arrived in adult aged and heir presumptive to the throne, beacause, in your scenario, the marriage with Anna was considered bigamous and the son illegitimate.
King Henry has the hope, the desire to have many children, but he does not have the certainty.
Infant mortality is very high, even in the royal families, and an accidental death for the King is always a possible accident (fall from a horse, hunting incident, disease, typhoid, cholera, smallpox, etc.).
Marry his only living daughter with a reigning king before having secured that male descendants from his new marriage have reached adulthood, it would be very dangerous, do not you think?
If Henry VIII died suddenly, Mary becomes Queen of England and Francis of France with her...
It would be in the interest of the king procrastinate as much as possible a marriage so "dangerous"?

I have a few questions.
§ Renee of France married the Duke of Ferrara in 1528, at eighteen. Madeleine of Francis of France was born in 1520 and in 1528 has eight years. you think that Ercole's father (who wanted this marriage only for political reasons, who has requested that it be celebrated at the earliest and then, who forced his son to consummate it immediately in order not to lose the rich dowry promise but which in truth was never paid to the Este family) would agree to wait at least another eight years before the marriage was consummated?
§ Henry VIII has repudiated Anne of Cleves also because ugly. «Madama Renea» was described by Ercole d'Este as «not beautiful», by Francesco Maria della Rovere as «a monster» and by Ludovico Ariosto «adorned with every virtue» but not beautiful... King Henry would marry such a virago?
§ You chose Renee of France for the suggestion of his sympathy for the Calvinism?
Still in 1539 Calvin not estimated King Henry VIII and wrote that «the King is only half wise» because, although he had broken away from Rome, he defended the seven sacraments and mantained in large measure the Catholic Rituals: for Calvin the new Church of England was «stuffed full as yet with many toys and trifles».
And for Henry VIII, initially less concerned to the doctrinal matters, the Church of England had to be as a “middle way” between Calvinism and Catholicism. He observed with concern the rejection of the Calvinists to the liturgy, vestments and episcopal hierarchy: the Puritans appeared as destroyers of the Church of England under the excuse that their sole aim was to restore it to its original purity.
Your idea is that Renee of France leads Henry to approach and take on the most extreme positions of Calvinism?
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Urbanus VII said:
I am interested in your idea of this scenario that makes much more united England and France in 1530s.
However, I have a doubt to be submitted. Leaving aside the fact that Henry VIII’s blood group would still condemned the King to a desperate, useless and mostly unsuccessful lifetime to seeking a male heir in the arms of any woman he would married, one after another (in their recent study, Catrina Banks Whitley and Kyra Kramer talk about the rare Kell antigen [a protein that triggers immune responses] in the Henry’s blood, inherited by Jacquetta of Luxembourg, that would make him poor in the reproductive matches, combined with McLeod syndrome) and, then, imagine a numerous progeny for the King should no longer be considered correct and feasible, Henry VIII would not have to consider it dangerous, simultaneously to his wedding with Renee of France, make to marry his daughter Mary to the King of France?
At that moment the Princess Mary is the only daughter arrived in adult aged and heir presumptive to the throne, beacause, in your scenario, the marriage with Anna was considered bigamous and the son illegitimate.
King Henry has the hope, the desire to have many children, but he does not have the certainty.
Infant mortality is very high, even in the royal families, and an accidental death for the King is always a possible accident (fall from a horse, hunting incident, disease, typhoid, cholera, smallpox, etc.).
Marry his only living daughter with a reigning king before having secured that male descendants from his new marriage have reached adulthood, it would be very dangerous, do not you think?
If Henry VIII died suddenly, Mary becomes Queen of England and Francis of France with her...
It would be in the interest of the king procrastinate as much as possible a marriage so "dangerous"?

I have a few questions.
§ Renee of France married the Duke of Ferrara in 1528, at eighteen. Madeleine of Francis of France was born in 1520 and in 1528 has eight years. you think that Ercole's father (who wanted this marriage only for political reasons, who has requested that it be celebrated at the earliest and then, who forced his son to consummate it immediately in order not to lose the rich dowry promise but which in truth was never paid to the Este family) would agree to wait at least another eight years before the marriage was consummated?
§ Henry VIII has repudiated Anne of Cleves also because ugly. «Madama Renea» was described by Ercole d'Este as «not beautiful», by Francesco Maria della Rovere as «a monster» and by Ludovico Ariosto «adorned with every virtue» but not beautiful... King Henry would marry such a virago?
§ You chose Renee of France for the suggestion of his sympathy for the Calvinism?
Still in 1539 Calvin not estimated King Henry VIII and wrote that «the King is only half wise» because, although he had broken away from Rome, he defended the seven sacraments and mantained in large measure the Catholic Rituals: for Calvin the new Church of England was «stuffed full as yet with many toys and trifles».
And for Henry VIII, initially less concerned to the doctrinal matters, the Church of England had to be as a “middle way” between Calvinism and Catholicism. He observed with concern the rejection of the Calvinists to the liturgy, vestments and episcopal hierarchy: the Puritans appeared as destroyers of the Church of England under the excuse that their sole aim was to restore it to its original purity.
Your idea is that Renee of France leads Henry to approach and take on the most extreme positions of Calvinism?
Click to expand...

The thing is that in this TL, there were negotiations for a marriage between Renee and the King of Scotland but it does not push through because of a marriage with Henry VIII, also Henry VIII already has a son named Edward from Anne Boleyn so what he needs for Renee is spares for the Tudors.

If Henry VIII dies with only daughters with Renee then Mary's son from Anthony can claim the throne.

Would Henry VIII marry off Prince Arthur of Cornwall off to one of Mary's daughters by Francis? This would give Arthur's line an even stronger claim to the French throne.

Organise the marriage of Prince Henry of Wales (Future Henry IX) to Mary Queen of Scots, same as he tried with Prince Edward in OTL.

The daughter may just be like Elizabeth and be left to her own device or who else is there for her?
Click to expand...

Edward, the son of Anne Boleyn is the one likely to marry the Queen of Scots, Mary Tudor is out of the question..she might end up fighting for her son for the English throne like Matilda did but that is doubtful.
 
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