The Land of Wine and Beer : a Franco-Burgundian TL

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Before posting the prelude, for which I don't have time today, I wish that you guess what this TL is about.
The Prelude, which gives the POD, will be posted tomorrow before 7 AM GMT.
 
Happy hunting and may you scare the living sh$ts out of the English with a France that controls the entirety of the Lower Countries.
 
Prelude
Prelude
Dijon, Christmas 1473.
Some room in the ducal palace.
"Bring me some parchment, a feather and some ink!" yelled a man wearing a hat full of various jewels, as he entered the room. He took off his hat, turned to the chair, and the materials were there. Then he started writing. After all, a will is a cheaper way to get avenged than a siege.
"I, Charles, Duke of Burgondy, Flanders, Brabant, Limbourg, and Luxembourg, Palatine count of Hainaut, Burgondy, Holland, Zeeland, Frisia and Namur, count of Artois, Picardy, Charolais and Rethel, sane in body and mind, hereby declare the following to be my will :
1) Should I have no son, I wish that all my lands go to my daughter Marie, unless she marries a member of the house of Habsburg.
2) Should Marie marry a member of the house of Habsburg, these lands shall be inherited according to salic law, to my cousin Louis XI or his heirs on the French throne."
Followed a long list of varied donations to the artists that, like his illustrious ancestors, the Duke was protecting, and a hefty one to the Chartreuse of Champmol where he was to be buried alongside his father and grandfather.
"In Dijon, 25th December of 1473,
Charles"
He stopped, scratched his head, and had his willed be registered and copied twice by his chambellan. Then he applied his seal, the lion of Burgondy, on each of the copies.
One copy was sent to Brussels, the heart of Brabant and of his Northern provinces. A second one stayed in Dijon, the capital of his Southern estates, and he carried the third one with himself.

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Here is the end of this first update. The next 9 are already planned if not written.
@darthfanta : there will be only French Netherlands this time around, so the English will see lean, lean times if they cross the French. So I guess Calais won't stay English for long.
@twovultures : Thanks. It's only a reference to the Netherlands /Alsace-Lorraine, which are lands of beer, while France (Champagne, Duchy of Burgondy and Aquitaine especially) is the land of wine, but I do like this title quite a bit.

 
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Why is he so hellbent against the Habsburgs as opposed to the main branch?
Because the Holy Roman Emperor, Friedrich III von Habsburg, in 1473 took a French leave the day before Charles was supposed to be crowned King of Burgondy, scared by the Duke's temper. Next update I'll precise the deal that had been worked out.
IOTL he avenged himself in 1474 with a useless siege around the Imperial city of Neuss using an army so beautiful it couldn't fight :D. Here it's much more of a backstab than Charles's usual flamboyant and chivalrious actions.;)
 
Sure. But this can't decently drive Charles the bold to leave all his Estates (which did not inclure the county of Nevers) to his arch-enemy Louis XI.

This just won't happen unless you have Charles be terribly defeated by Louis XI. Which seems very unlikely by 1473, given that Louis XI's strategy was not to act directly.

I would rather ad use that Charles the bold choose Louis of Orleans as husband of his daughter Mary and heir of the Burgundian principalities.
 
Because the Holy Roman Emperor, Friedrich III von Habsburg, in 1473 took a French leave the day before Charles was supposed to be crowned King of Burgondy, scared by the Duke's temper. Next update I'll precise the deal that had been worked out.
IOTL he avenged himself in 1474 with a useless siege around the Imperial city of Neuss using an army so beautiful it couldn't fight :D. Here it's much more of a backstab than Charles's usual flamboyant and chivalrious actions.;)

Promising start! Count me in...

Still, you need to develop a little the POD, as Charles and Louis hated each-other to the death in 1473... (remember La ligue du Bien public from 1465 or the treaty of Peronne in 1468).

So, is he reconciled with the Spider King?
I think that the best change could be Louis XI not invalidating the treaty of Peronne and continue to play his spider game, fooling Charles. Or, something else appears and the two cousins reconcile...

However, would the non-french lands accept the will of Charles? I suppose that the low countries will revolt and the Hapsburg Emperor will declare it only applicable for the french fiefs.

Any way, it will be palpitant! :D:D:D

I can't wait for more.....


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PS: I like the title... as both the French wines and Flemish beer...
 
Promising start! Count me in...

Still, you need to develop a little the POD, as Charles and Louis hated each-other to the death in 1473... (remember La ligue du Bien public from 1465 or the treaty of Peronne in 1468).

So, is he reconciled with the Spider King?
I think that the best change could be Louis XI not invalidating the treaty of Peronne and continue to play his spider game, fooling Charles. Or, something else appears and the two cousins reconcile...

However, would the non-french lands accept the will of Charles? I suppose that the low countries will revolt and the Hapsburg Emperor will declare it only applicable for the french fiefs.

Any way, it will be palpitant! :D:D:D

I can't wait for more.....


---
PS: I like the title... as both the French wines and Flemish beer...
It will most likely be a problem.Besides that,legally,I think only the Duchy of Burgundy and some other places the Bungundian branch purchased or conquered can revert to the French crown directly as there will undoubtedly be different heirs to the the county of Flanders,Luxembourg,Holland etc.

I'd assume though that in this scenario,Mary will most likely marry the Dauphin instead of the Habsburgs.
 
Sure. But this can't decently drive Charles the bold to leave all his Estates (which did not inclure the county of Nevers) to his arch-enemy Louis XI.

This just won't happen unless you have Charles be terribly defeated by Louis XI. Which seems very unlikely by 1473, given that Louis XI's strategy was not to act directly.

I would rather ad use that Charles the bold choose Louis of Orleans as husband of his daughter Mary and heir of the Burgundian principalities.

Promising start! Count me in...

Still, you need to develop a little the POD, as Charles and Louis hated each-other to the death in 1473... (remember La ligue du Bien public from 1465 or the treaty of Peronne in 1468).

So, is he reconciled with the Spider King?
I think that the best change could be Louis XI not invalidating the treaty of Peronne and continue to play his spider game, fooling Charles. Or, something else appears and the two cousins reconcile...

However, would the non-french lands accept the will of Charles? I suppose that the low countries will revolt and the Hapsburg Emperor will declare it only applicable for the french fiefs.

Any way, it will be palpitant! :D:D:D

I can't wait for more.....


---
PS: I like the title... as both the French wines and Flemish beer...

This is how I thought of it : not only Peronne is never broken, but there is another legacy to take into account : Naples and Lorraine. In 1473 the House of Anjou lost its last claimant to the Napolitan throne, which was the Duke of Lorraine. All remaining bad blood between cousins is set aside when they encounter in late 1473 : to the French Valois the task of taking over the Trastamara-occupied Throne of Peninsular Sicily, with the risks of a war with Aragon, to the Burgundians Lorraine which happens to be the missing piece between their Netherlands and the Burgondies.
This will lead to differences in the War of Castillian Successsion , in the Burgundian Inheritance War and finally the Italian Wars.
But no spoilers:D
 
It will most likely be a problem.Besides that,legally,I think only the Duchy of Burgundy and some other places the Bungundian branch purchased or conquered can revert to the French crown directly as there will undoubtedly be different heirs to the the county of Flanders,Luxembourg,Holland etc.

I'd assume though that in this scenario,Mary will most likely marry the Dauphin instead of the Habsburgs.

The Dauphin is just 3 years old on 1473, so a marriage is not even possible, heck if Charles, Duke of Viana survives - Ferdinand of Aragon might marry Mary instead which means the return of the House of Ivrea in Burgundy - its original home, another possible marriage is the Duke of Guyenne, the Dauphin gets killed by his uncle like the fate of the Princes in the tower..

Another is Nicholas marrying Mary instead.
 
The Dauphin is just 3 years old on 1473, so a marriage is not even possible, heck if Charles, Duke of Viana survives - Ferdinand of Aragon might marry Mary instead which means the return of the House of Ivrea in Burgundy - its original home, another possible marriage is the Duke of Guyenne, the Dauphin gets killed by his uncle like the fate of the Princes in the tower..

Another is Nicholas marrying Mary instead.
Not impossible.It was originally the plan of the Spider King.Problem is would Mary wait till she's almost 30 before she gets married?
 
It will most likely be a problem.Besides that,legally,I think only the Duchy of Burgundy and some other places the Bungundian branch purchased or conquered can revert to the French crown directly as there will undoubtedly be different heirs to the the county of Flanders,Luxembourg,Holland etc.

I'd assume though that in this scenario,Mary will most likely marry the Dauphin instead of the Habsburgs.
Most of the Burgundian lands were conquered or inherited. However, unlike the will of Philippe de Rouvres, the last pre-Valois Duke of Burgondy, Charles considers his lands and wills they be considered a single realm, that would behave like a kingdom and not like a bunch of pieced-together fiefs.
 
What about Charles VIII being born female and Nicholas of Anjou marries Mary of Burgundy, that would make Mary of Burgundy, the Queen of France and Burgundy is integrated to France.
 
What about Charles VIII being born female and Nicholas of Anjou marries Mary of Burgundy, that would make Mary of Burgundy, the Queen of France and Burgundy is integrated to France.

Why should be Nicholas of Anjou next in line for the throne of France? Wouldn't be Louis of Orléans (future Louis XII?)

Now, when I planed my failed Burgundian France TL, I imagined a marriage between him (b in1462) and Marry (b in 1457) :cool:.


PS: you see, I like TLs starting with a marriage... :D:D:D
 
Why should be Nicholas of Anjou next in line for the throne of France? Wouldn't be Louis of Orléans (future Louis XII?)

Now, when I planed my failed Burgundian France TL, I imagined a marriage between him (b in1462) and Marry (b in 1457) :cool:.


PS: you see, I like TLs starting with a marriage... :D:D:D


Nicholas of Anjou is ahead of Louis in the French succession, if he did not die he or his son might be the one that marries Anne of Brittany.
 
No. It's Louis of Orleans who is ahead in the succession line to the throne of France. He descended from king Charles V on the male line. The Anjou descended from king Charles V's father, king John II.
 
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