Look To The East: A World Without Rome

"To blunder twice is not allowed in war"

~Latin Proverb

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Excerpt From, A History Of The Tyrrhenians by Dioskoros of Syrakusa circa, 490s-480s AE; Modern translation by Hamilket Barak (1980* University of New Carthage press)

According to their own accounts, the city of Veii was founded by the same Tarchon of Lydia who is said to be the founder of the Tyrrhenian League[1]. This, as I have already related, was a claim shared by her rival Tarchnal, a point that was not lost on the two cities as they both attempted to prove their city predated the other[2]. I have said at the beginning of this book, which I related the foundation myth of the Tyrrhenians, that I would only relate to you the story of Tyrrhenus, feeling it better to leave Tarchnal's story for a later point in my writing. That point has now come.

The facts surrounding this legendary figure are inextricably linked with the lives of his two other notable contemporaries, Tyrrhenus and the Trojan Aeneas. The story of Aeneas as the Tyrrhenians recall it is outside of the scope of my history; however, I will relate to you that after the sack of Troy, Aeneas is said to have fled west from Troy after the city's fall. He ended up, first in Carthage where he carried on an affair with their queen Elissa, and then in Latium. It was while in Latium that he carried out a war alongside Latinus, the founder and King of the Latins, against his enemy Turnus.

This war, as I have had it related to me, was fought when Latinus's daughter Lavinia, who was origianlly betrothed to Turnus to ensure his goodwill, was instead married off to Aeneas upon the latter's arrival in Latium. This was allegedly at the behest of Hera, who wished to see Aeneas and his Trojans suffer more. Hera now also intervened to encourage Turnus to declare war on Aeneas and Latinus.

The Tyrrhenians were divided over who to support, and this caused much conflict in the league. Those who supported Turnus in the war were led by Mezentius, and those who supported Aeneas, by Tarchon, who was still the most respected figure in the league. Tarchon's faction appeared to gain the upperhand, and after a particularly bitter argument, they exiled Mezentius and his supporters, who fled to Turnus's court. Tarchon established a pact of friendship with Aeneas, and gathered his own troops from Veii and Tarchnal to assist his new allies.

At this time Turnus was besieging Aeneas and Latinus, and had it not been for Tarchon's timely arrival, would have ended the war right there. Turnus was nearly killed in the ensuing battle, only to be saved by Hera who did not wish to see the war end so quickly. It was at the same time that Euandros and his Arkadians, founder of the city of Pallantium[3] (later, it would change its name to Roma, the name which it still goes by) joined Aeneas, on account of his having known the latter's father Anchises from before the Trojan War. The war began to turn against Turnus, and Aeneas, hoping to finally resolve the conflict, challenged him to single combat. Turnus accepted the duel, and was killed, as Hera, finding the Trojans had suffered enough, declined to save him.

So the story goes about the first interaction between the Tyrrhenians and the Latins. Everything I have said here has been told to me by those Tyrrhenians whom I met in my travels there, and they can only be as accurate as they have been retold to me. As time went on, the children of Tarchon and Aeneas, the cities Veii and Roma, inevitably betrayed their alliance, as two cities in such close proximity on opposite banks of a river could not, for very long, remain on good terms unless one has domination over the other.

The Latins of Roma and the Tyrrhenians of Veii fought three wars between them in a single century, between the 2nd year of the 73rd Olympiad and the 4th year of the 93rd Olympiad. The first two wars achieved little. In the first war, a personal feud between the Veiientines and the leading oligarch family of Roma (led by a man named Fabius) turned into a war for control of the strategic city of Fidenae on the Latin bank of the Tiber, a war Roma, won, although at the expense of losing control of their own fort on the Veiientine bank of the Tiber.

The second war was fought over the same territory, 44 years after the first. The people of Fidenae, not content with domination by the Latins, appealed to the King of Veii, Lars Tolumnius, and switched their allegiance over to his city. They inquired as to what they should do when the Roman ambassadors entered the city, and Veiientine King, remaining true to the cruelty and brutality of the Tyrrhenian people, ordered the ambassadors be murdered.
The war swung back and forth for years, until Lars Tolumnius was killed in single combat by Cornelius, and the Veiientines withdrew. When they returned the following year and threatened Roma, the oligarchs of the city elected one of their own, Quintus Servilius, King. Servilius forced the Veiientines away from Roma, defeated them in battle, and retook Fidenae, winning him great admiration among the Latins. The Veiientines appealed the Tyrrhenian League for assistance, but when the Tyrrhenians, eager to see a rival state get cut down to size, declined to intervene, they signed a 20 year peace.
When the peace finally ended, Roma sent ambassadors to Veii to demand redress for supposed grievances, to which the Veiientines responded with anger and prepared for war. They elected as archon Velthur Hathisna, and immediately sent ambassadors to the Capenates and Faliscans to the north, who were wary of encroaching Latin power, and the Volscians to their south, who had just lost the city of Anxur to the Latins.

Yet the Veiientines did not put an army into the field, instead opting to let the Latins atempt to siege them. The siege went on for years, with the Latins conducting simultaneous campaigns against the Capenates, Faliscans, and Volscians. The war finally came to a head in the first year of the 93rd Olympiad[4] a Latin army was ambushed by the Faliscans and Capenates, and his head sent to Camillus, the Latin commander of the siege.

The Veientines rejoiced at the news. A subsequent attempt by Camillus to lead a second army of his own against the enemy led in a similar result, with Camillus forced to withdrawal after walking into another well planned ambush. The Faliscans and Capenates, now confident after their double victory, followed it up by marching to relieve Veii. Camillus prudently withdrrew, harried all the way across the Tiber by the now emboldened Hathisna, who, after a brief succession of archons, had been re-elected for the year's campaign. The Veientines pressed their advantage by besieging and then taking Fidenae after a year long siege.

A Roman army was defeated again in the Second Battle of the Anio, and the Veientines entered the city, torching most of it and besieging the akropolis[5]. Surrounded and with no sign of another Latin army coming to aid them, the Romans begged for terms. Infuriated after three wars and a decade under siege, during which the Romans rebuffed all attempts at peace, the Veientines demanded an unconditional surrender, which certainly meant enslaving or expelling them from the city. The Romans perhaps surprisingly, only offered a minor concession-they would be allowed to leave the city and find sanctuary with their Latin brothers, leaving the city for the Veiientines to do with as they saw fit. The Veientines agreed to the terms, and what Romans were left departed the city for good[6]

*Bonus points to anyone who figures out what this date is in BCE/CE dating and its significance IOTL This dating system is AE, or Anno Hellas, "In the year of the Hellenes", starting with the first Olympiad in 776 BCE
[1]This line has been the subject of much debate among scholars. Earlier in his account, Dioskoros names Tyrrhenus as the founder of the Tyrrhenians. It is possible that Dioskoros is confused, for Herodotos' account clearly states that both Tyrrhenus and Tarchon were both the legendary founders of the Tyrrhenians. On the other hand, Dioskoros may be trying to differentiate Tyrrhenus as a founder of the Etruscans, and Tarchon as founder of the league.

[2] For more on this interesting battle over history, see; Dioskoros II, iv.

[3] That would be between 293-383 AE [483-393 BCE]

[4] That would be 380 AE[396 BCE]

[5] The Romans called this hill the Capitoline

[6] There is considerable dispute over the events as they are described by Dioskoros. His claims are dubious, for the Veientines going from on the verge of complete destruction to besieging the Capitoline in only 2 years has been viewed as highly unlikely by others, notably my fellow colleague Hideaki Kazuo. It is further brought into question by the later account of the Alban historian Naevius, who, while admittedly not unbiased himself, paints a much more deadlocked picture of the war after the Veientines broke the siege. Still, it is hard to find another convincing explanation for the Romans expelling themselves from the city. One other compelling hypothesis, created by Kazuo but not endorsed by myself, is that the Romans fled the city when the situation detereorated after a few years of losses following the breaking of the siege, felt all was lost and decided to flee.

 
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So I had a nice, really long, internal dialogue written out, but then Mozilla crashed and brought it down with me, so please enjoy this short description:

Basically, I got frustrated with "The Eternal Flame Dies Out". I didn't like the quality, the style, and I kept on looking back and finding slightly ASBish things everywhere. I also really didn't like the neglect I showed Italy or the way the middle east ended up. The latter started to make less and less sense as I thought about it.

So rather than launch this sort of reboot much earlier in the summer, I was lazy, put it off, and now here we are towards the end of July, with me starting my reboot. I'm not sure if the title actually will mean anything yet, but I was thinking since Rome is in the west, and the east is "civilized" while the west is not yet by comparison (well sort of)...you get the idea. Well that and I noticed we've never had a look to the east before and I had trouble coming up with a cool name, so I decided to go with it.

Enjoy!


Well, we looked to the west, now it's time to look to the east!

Good start, and I hope you continue. :)
Thanks!
 
Subscribed again! I like the primary source style as well.

(that said, please please keep providing proper CE/BCE dates as well, I don't think I'm the only one who would be hopelessly lost otherwise)
 
Subscribed again! I like the primary source style as well.

(that said, please please keep providing proper CE/BCE dates as well, I don't think I'm the only one who would be hopelessly lost otherwise)
I'd be lost without them as well, so they won't be going anywhere. I wanted to keep them in the footnotes at least for this update, because of who the source was.
 
Wait wouldn't you just be containing yourself if you set up a ('New Carthage') modern-day source as if the country survived 2300 years of butterflies with it's language also frozen in place? I remember when I helped set up the original version, and stated that it was a bad idea; giving the audience a clue that (in this case) Carthage still exists today is an indication of a caged butterfly effect - a forced containment of creativity so to speak.
 
Wait wouldn't you just be containing yourself if you set up a ('New Carthage') modern-day source as if the country survived 2300 years of butterflies with it's language also frozen in place? I remember when I helped set up the original version, and stated that it was a bad idea; giving the audience a clue that (in this case) Carthage still exists today is an indication of a caged butterfly effect - a forced containment of creativity so to speak.
It does nothing of the sort. For starters, "New Carthage" is written in its english form. As I am no linguist and can only speak of language changes, not actually figure out how their alphabet, words, grammar, etc. would look and sound, trying to figure out what "New Carthage" would be in a language that doesn't exist yet would be an exercise in futility for me.

Furthermore, there are towns called Carthage that exist today in the United States, yet the Carthage of ancient history does not exist. Yes, I gave a little away by the name of the author, but that is not actually as telling as you may think. I have bits and pieces of this story planned our all the way to its end, so I am not really containing myself so much as I am using what minimal knowledge I have of how this world will end up to hint at it to readers.
 
It does nothing of the sort. For starters, "New Carthage" is written in its english form. As I am no linguist and can only speak of language changes, not actually figure out how their alphabet, words, grammar, etc. would look and sound, trying to figure out what "New Carthage" would be in a language that doesn't exist yet would be an exercise in futility for me.

Furthermore, there are towns called Carthage that exist today in the United States, yet the Carthage of ancient history does not exist. Yes, I gave a little away by the name of the author, but that is not actually as telling as you may think. I have bits and pieces of this story planned our all the way to its end, so I am not really containing myself so much as I am using what minimal knowledge I have of how this world will end up to hint at it to readers.
Very well, I understand. I hope I can be of much assistance in helping you in those areas as the timeline progresses.
 
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Excerpt From Iron Age Italy by Anton Agnes


The tradition surrounding the foundation of Alba Longa states that Ascanius, the son of the Trojan hero Aeneas, founded the city in the 4th century before the Olympiad [1176-1076 BCE]. Following the death of Latinus and then the death of his father Aeneas, Ascanius is said to have founded the city in order to relieve the overcrowding of Lanuvium[1], making it his capital and thus starting the mythic line of Kings of Alba Longa that ruled until an equally mythic line of kings ruled Latium from Roma.

The truth, as always however, is somewhwat less exciting. There is no sign of a coherent city of Alba Longa until the Romans arrived there in 383 AE[393 BCE]. Rather, archaeological evidence points to several separate small settlements and villages coming into existence in the Alban Hills during the early Iron Age. It does appear that by the late 1st-2nd centuries AE[7th century BCE], the villages were starting to coalesce around a center, but that was violently interrupted when a brutal spat with Rome led to their destruction and conquest.

The first true settlement that could be called Alba Longa can be dated to the Roman arrival there following the sack of their city by the Veientines at the conclusion of the Third Veientine War. As the story goes, the Romans struck a deal with the local inhabitants for the governance of the city. Alba Longa would elect 2 consular tribunes, one Roman and one Alban, and 10 tribunii ordinarii to create the laws of the land. A senate was recreated, except rather than being the aristocratic oligarchy it had been in Roma, it was a council of 400 that was selected by lot every year.


In reality, such an orderly process at even the best of times, is highly unlikely. Rather, being that the Albans were still a conquered people despite the circumstances, there is little to suggest that, at least early on, the Romans gave them much choice in the running of the state. Given the situation, it is unlikely that the Romans did anything more initially other than port their government system from Roma to Alba Longa. That membership was now chosen by lot was likely more a matter of necessity than a compromise with the local inhabitants. The plebeians now literally held all the cards against the patricians, and as such were able demand huge concessions. In addition, many of the sitting senators were in all likelihood already dead, and so there was a serious lack of established membership. For the moment at least, the patricians had to admit defeat.

For some time, the Albans (as both Roman and Alban inhabitants of Alba Longa would come to be known) did not make much noise outside of their city. They mostly sought the protection of the city of Tusculum (which at this point in time had taken Roma's position as the dominant city in Latium), as they went about establishing and building up their city and institutions. The news of the sack of Clevsin and then Veii by Senone Chieftan Brennus within a few years after their city's establishment must have been seen as poetic justice as the new city celebrated a festival honoring the sack (a festival that would be repeated every August 6th ).

That mood of course, would have been tempered over the next two decades. Latium came under increasingly frequent raids by the Senones, raids that saw cities such as Gabii and Lavinium get sacked; in Gabii's case, the unfortunate city was sacked twice, once in 390 and then again in 394. That same year, Alba Longa was nearly sacked was it not for the intervention of a few household dogs that woke up the garrison of the city to an attempt at scaling the akropolis.

The siege had come after a particularly disastrous battle outside Gabii which had been followed by the latter's second sack. Unable to take the the still heavily fortified city of Tusculum, the Senones opted instead for the unwalled Alba Longa just to its south. Unsuspecting their arrival so quickly (and certainly not expecting an attack at night), the Alban guards were that stood picket outside the city as a matter of course were lax in their watch, with most of them falling asleep on the job. When the Senones arrived, they got as far as the pickets before alert dogs in a nearby home awoke the guards to the scene, allowing them to alert the city in time to repel the Senone army.

Two problems arise from this version of events. The story ends with the defenders massacring the Senone army, following up their victory by chasing the remnants out of Latium for good. A good ending, if the goal is to stress Latin superiority over the Barbarian Celts, but not if one is trying to maintain historical accuracy, as I am with this history. Subsequent raids by Senones in following years directly contradicts this line of events. Also brought into question is the entire attack on Alba Longa itself. While it is true that it was at some point after 394 that the Albans made sleeping on watch punishable by death, there is nothing that links it to the aborted sack of the city. Indeed, there is evidence that it was instead dated to the Alban siege of Tusculum, notable for the Tusculans being able to smuggle food in and supplies during nights for a time.

Instead, I offer an alternative hypothesis. The Albans and Tusculans were defeated once more in an attempt to stave off the Senones from coming down on their cities. Having heard of the fates of other cities, they offered to pay the Senones off, who were eager to accept. For the Senones, it appears, were not without problems of their own. Using this hypothesis, the Tyrrhenian revolt that we know broke out against the Senones around this time, coincides with the Senone army being safely away in Latium, giving them sufficient time to prepare for the inevitable backlash against their disobedience. In this scenario, we may also factor in the earliest date for Brennus's death, which occurs merely 2 years later. Given the circumstances and assuming Brennus might have had deteriorating health, it is easy to see why the Senones would have took the money and ran, and how the Albans may have twisted this to serve their patriotic ends.

Regardless, the Celtic raids continued, albeit at a much reduced level of intensity and frequency, for some time, remaining a constant source of stress and consternation for the Latins[...]

[…] It is now that I turn once more to the city of Alba Longa. In the decades following Alba Longa's supposedly close call with the warriors of Brennus, relations with the nearby city of Tusculum, so crucial to Alba Longa's survival in its early years, began to deteriorate rather rapidly. The Albans viewed the Tusculan's as weak and unable to protect themselves, let alone their own fledgling city. More importantly, the Albans remembered their history of domination over Tusculum as Roma, and, more recently, they were the ones who saved both cities from the Celtic menace.

Unsurprisingly, Alba Longa backed up this talk with military might. Between 395 and 420, the Albans succeeded in a remarkably short span of time to subdue and win over the nearby cities of Aricia, Bovillae, and Lanuvium in that order, thus usurping control of the area surrounding Lake Albanus that was traditionally in Tusculum's sphere. By this point in time Alba Longa now had a formidablle set of walls surrounding it, and so when Tusculum responded angrily with an invasion of this upstart in 427, they were frustratingly unable to take the city, and were instead ambushed and defeated on their home, adding to the humiliation. After another spat a few years later ended inconclusively, the Albans decided in 434[342 BCE] to forego further campaigns against the Volsci to the south, and instead, after convincing the people to vote for the war with promises of sharing the spoils, focused all their efforts on ending the threat Tusculum posed for good.

The siege played out very similarly to that of Veii by the Romans 60 years earlier, except this time the Tusculan's did not have many allies they could call on. After their army war wiped away in the Battle of Lake Regillus, the Tusculans prepared to wait out a siege. They were well equipped for the task, for 7 years in, they were still going strong. The Albans elected a dictator, Lucius Pupilius Peticus, who, after a brief look at a map, was the first to recognize that the Tusculans were being supplied by the nearby city of Labicum, with smugglers apparently having not too hard a time running the blockade.

Peticus began tightening up the blockade, building a circumvellation wall around the city and making it punishable by death anyone who is caught sleeping while on guard duty. He then asked the Alban Senate to raise another army to siege Labicum, a call they answered readily. When Labicum was taken the following year and all routes for relief cut off, the Tusculans asked for terms. The Albans, frustrated at almost a decade of siege and still remembering promises of sharing the spoils, allegedly demanded unconditional surrender and the privilege to choose 1 in 5 Tusculans be chosen to be sold into slavery. The Tusculan's refused with indignation, and prepared to fight it out until the end. Some of their colleagues were not that keen on righteous death however, and agreed to betray the city to the Albans in exchange their lives and a bit of coin.

When the gates were finally opened in 442, the Alban soldiers showed little restraint, venting their frustration at the populace. The sack was total, and very few of the Tusculans left alive were allowed to remain in the city, most either settled back in Alba Longa or sold into slavery (to say nothing of those that were killed in the debauchery)[...]





[1] For reference to the foundation of Lanuvium, see above, pg. 201
 
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Good to see you back in pre-1900, I was enjoying "The Eternal Flame Dies Out'. I do have to agree I missed seeing what was happening in Italy, but I thought your writing style was fine. However will follow this one closely, thank you for continuing writing.

It does seem an issue that a story can take a writer away from what he has planned, while that can be good not always what one wants.
 
Good to see you back in pre-1900, I was enjoying "The Eternal Flame Dies Out'.
Thank you! :D
I do have to agree I missed seeing what was happening in Italy, but I thought your writing style was fine. However will follow this one closely, thank you for continuing writing.
It's not that I thought my style was bad or anything, but I just thought I'd have more creative freedom with a style that has be shifting from excerpt to excerpt, rather than a straight narrative.

Forgetting about Italy was one of the major flaws with my previous timeline. I got so caught up in Greece and Jason and Pherai, that I kind of lost track of the original narrative.
 
A reboot of the "Eternal Flame", well that's the good new of the day! I really enjoyed your previous work; it inspired me to write my own ancient era TL.


Personally, I like excerpt and notes written by ATL modern historians that give a tiny peek of the TL's far future.
 
A reboot of the "Eternal Flame", well that's the good new of the day! I really enjoyed your previous work; it inspired me to write my own ancient era TL.
Thanks, more ancient timelines on this board can only be a good thing.

Personally, I like excerpt and notes written by ATL modern historians that give a tiny peek of the TL's far future.
Yeah, that was one of the reasons that led me to go with this format.
 
Aeneas? ???

Is there ANY source aside from the Romans that he came west? In a universe where Rome never rises, this seems to me to be very strange.
The Romans seem to have gotten the theory of Aeneas heading west from the Etruscans, who also seem to have been quite fond of the idea of Aeneas being in Italy. That said, while the city of Rome is dead, the Latins certainly are not (and Alba Longa has its own role to play), and will feature prominently in Italy still ITTL. In any case, I figured a Greek historian who for a time stayed and traveled in Etruria and Latium, might have picked up enough to create a story from it.
 
Excerpt From An Essay On The Debauchery of Civilization by Plato (pen name) circa 2014 [1238 CE]


[...]Take, for example, the Tyrrhenians, that most debauched of races much beloved by academics, more for their wealth of archaeology than any distinction they may have that deserves such attention. The Tyrrhenians, from the moment they succumbed to the luxuries of civilization, became weak and insolent, unable or unwilling to partake in the manly affairs of warfare, finding them the preserve of uncivilized barbarians, who, besides lacking language, did not even bathe or understand the value of art!


So aloof had this race become in military affairs that when the Celts came and overran their northernmost brothers, rather than gather their arms and march to their protection, the rest of the Tyrrhenians mourned their loss with ostentatious festivals, responding to the Celtic menace merely by taking a few gold pieces from every citizen (for the Tyrrhenians were very rich and gold was in such abundant supply that it is said even the collars of dogs were decked in gold and silver) and sending it off annually to the Celts in order to keep them from ravaging their lands. For there is nothing more that the Tyrrhenians feared more than the possibility of brutish barbarians sweeping down and robbing them of their wealth and debauched lifestyles.


This presented a conundrum for them, for at the same time they were revolted at the notion of dawning armor and engaging in manly acts of valor. The natural conclusion, then, of a race that coveted gold as much as them, was that giving enough gold (a small price to pay, as I have related) out of their own goodwill would satisfy the appetites of the barbarians enough to keep them at a distance. As this relationship blossomed, the Tyrrhenians took the next logical step, and began using the Celts for their own petty internal squabbles, which also inadvertently introduced the Celts to the true wealth of their land, a mistake that caused them to demand ever larger sums of gold. For greed is a disease that spares nobody-barbarian and civilized alike-and when the demands grew too much even for the wealthy Tyrrhenians to pay up, the Celts began responding by seizing their desired wealth by military force.


Finally forced to dawn armor for the first time in generations, the Tyrrhenians showed how weak the trappings of civilization could make a people. The Celts, owing to their hardy lifestyle where children grew up with a sword at their side and learned the art of war, not the art of fine dining, from a young age, were able to sweep aside the armies of the Tyrrhenians without any difficulty. They sacked first the city of Clevsin and then Veii[1], and then returned again to occupy them. When the Celts tried the same thing further south against the Latins, the rustic and tough lifestyle of the Latins allowed them to defeat and turn back the Celts, an example that shows more than anything else that it was debauched civilization that led to the Tyrrhenians decline.


As I have said, greed spares nobody, and once the Celtic bands that had made Tyrrhenia their home experienced the wealth and luxury that their civilization had to offer, they too became soft and petty, and when their war leader died, they wasted their strength fighting amongst each other for sole control of the unimaginable wealth they had acquired, weakening themselves and diverting attention away from more pressing foreign threats and opportunities[...]


[1] Although this is not a work of history I feel compelled to record the dates of these events as occurring in the year 387[389 BCE].
 
I shall remain silent on that.

The Etruscans: a refined civilization with morals that, compared to those of their neighbours, seem downright modern, and that is destined to be annihilated in each and every TL by more "barbarian" and warlike peoples. Poor Rasenna, they can never catch a break. :D
 
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