What If's in Music
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What if Jonathan Richman didn't go to Bermuda & stuck with his original geek-rock sound?
What if the rest of the Velvet Underground called Lou Reed's "He goes or I go" bluff, and John Cale stayed in the band? (Either with Lou quitting, or Lou backs down & stays)
What if Weezer finished & released "Songs from the Black Hole" as their second album?
What if Iggy & the Stooges stay clean enough to keep their record deal and make a 4th album just in time for the early stirrings of punk rock?
What if the rest of the Velvet Underground called Lou Reed's "He goes or I go" bluff, and John Cale stayed in the band? (Either with Lou quitting, or Lou backs down & stays)
What if Weezer finished & released "Songs from the Black Hole" as their second album?
What if Iggy & the Stooges stay clean enough to keep their record deal and make a 4th album just in time for the early stirrings of punk rock?
When I attended the Univ. of Wisconsin, the apartment building I lived in, was next to the lake (Lake Monona), that Otis Redding's plane went down in.
I've also been to concerts at Alpine Valley (where SRV died), and considering that the ski hill the helicopter SRV was flying in hit, is basically right behind the stage, it's not at all implausible that during bad flying weather, a pilot unfamilar with the area, could crash into the ski hill. It's too bad, because, Syevie had gotten himself cleaned up drug-wise (when I saw him headline at Summerfest in Milwaukee in 1986, he was so stoned, and his speech was so slurred, you could hardly understand him at times), and had recently released his "In Step" album, to reve reviews.
Regarding Syd Barrett - he did not technically leave/quit Pink Floyd. According to some interviews of David Gilmour I've read (he had had known the guys [including Syd] in Pink Floyd for a very long time, and when Syd [whose real name was Rodger] started getting erratic, and couldn't be counted on to pull his weight musically in the band, David was asked to join the band as the second guitar player), when the band was leaving for a show they were doing in Great Britain, somebody said, "hey, what about Syd?" The response given by another band member was basically that Syd was such bother to bring to gigs (there had already been some shows, where Syd was so out of it, that he did nothing but stare off into space, and strum the same chord on his guitar non-stop, irregardless of what was going on at the time), that the band should just head out to the gig, and not bother stopping off at Syd's place to pick him up (for the gig). That was that, and from that day forward, Syd was no longer included in Pink Floyd's musical activities. Also, David Gilmour has stated that while Syd's heavy LSD usage was a contributor to the breakdown of his mental state, it was not the only factor in it occurring - both David (and Roger Waters) remembered at least one time, where Syd had to be hospitalized when he was young, due to a nervous breakdown. LSD was probably the straw that broke Syd's mental back.
Two musical What Ifs of mine:
1. What if Cliff Burton, Metallica's gifted bass player (listen to the killer bass solo "(Anesthesia) - Pulling Teeth", off of the Kill 'em All album) hadn't died in the bus crash that occurred during their 1986 European Tour? IMO there was a definite shift in Metallica's sound after Cliff died.
2. This is sort of a two for one - how would have things went for Fleetwood Mac, if Peter Green (who was a major musical contributor to the band, and at the time was considered a guitar god), and Danny Kirwan (the band's third guitar player at the time - he was a very gifted player, who IMO, had a postive impact on Fleetwood Mac's sound) hadn't been enticed by the "German Jet Set" couple (bass player John McVie's name for them), to attend a party, where both Peter and Danny basically spent the next day or two fried out on LSD?
Neither of them really recovered from the experience. Peter Green ended up becoming schizophrenic, and as a result, spent a long period of time (at least 10 years) in a mental hospital, and while he's is back playing music sporadically, he's not the same as he used to be IMO, ability-wise. Danny Kirwan - nobody knows where he is. His mental state deteriorated, after the big LSD blowout, and he ended up leaving Fleetwood Mac. The most recent information about him (from a few years ago) is that he was living on the streets of London, as a delusional bum.
Without the event mentioned above occurring, would Fleetwood Mac have remained the blues, and hard blues-rock band it was at the time (despite the fact that before the LSD event, Peter Green was already contemplating leaving the group), or would it have eventually drifted into the more pop oriented direction that eventually resulted in the group becoming international superstars?
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The Stooges were basically IMO, a protopunk band, and are considered a major influence of many punk rockers. The drugs definitely contributed to the band's woes, but IMO, they were not the main factor in the band being dropped by Columbia. The only reason the band even had the Columbia record deal, was due to David Bowie. They had already been dropped from Elektra (the label that their first two albums were recorded under [the band just being called "The Stooges" at the time]), and had ceased to exist as a band, by the time David Bowie managed to talk Columbia into signing Iggy Popp. Bowie was supposed to produce the "Raw Power" album - according to the band members, he didn't do much in the way of producer's duties, and this probably contributed to the uneven/chaotic sound quality of the album (which surprisingly, many people like). The album pretty much tanked from Day 1 (like the the first two albums did) sales-wise, and didn't become a decent seller, until long after Iggy and The Stooges broke up. So, Iggy and The Stooges were dropped from Columbia. Despite this, the band did try to do a tour, that was (in the words of guitarist James Williamson) like a death march. After the tour ground to a halt, everybody was just plain fed up with it all, and the band called it quits. Crowds at shows were oftentimes small, indifferent, and hostile (partly due to the band's [especially Iggy - he would taunt the crowd] sometimes erratic behavior). In general, with the exception of a small, underground following, nobody liked the music or the band. So, IMO, Iggy and the Stooges would have crashed sooner or later, drugs or no drugs. Which is too bad, the Stooges are a cool band.
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Ok, so a different POD might be if things progressed as per OTL with the Stooges breaking up, Iggy checking into a mental hospital, but crucially WITHOUT Bowie dropping in to visit him? From there, Bowie & Iggy never reconnect, Iggy never "Goes industrial" with 'The Idiot' album, and his comeback album (about 1976-7, given plenty of time out to recuperate) is somewhere between OTL's Kill City & Lust For Life, maybe with a few more late-era Stooges leftovers thrown in.
To keep Syd in Pink Floyd, you ideally need a POD in 1966 or earlier - perhaps a bad trip scares him off LSD? By 1967, the career momentum is so strong, it's hard seeing him being allowed to stop long enough to sort himself out.
I think the drug use cracked an underlying mental fragility he had - so it's debatable whether he'd be able to handle music industry pressure even if he kicked the LSD. Especially if they still have chart success in mid 1967.
One thing that may have helped is getting a strong ally for Syd into the band that's a capable songwriter too. (In 1968, Gilmour wasn't recruited for his songwriting). Perhaps someone like Kevin Ayers or a (then) little known David Bowie may have helped as a 5th band member.
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Would Celine Dion still continue her international singing career (beyond the Francophone) if she's second to Scott FitzGerald in ESC 1988?
Yeah, Bowie had a strong influence on Iggy. I guess either him staying away from Iggy, after Iggy detoxed in the mental hospital, or James Williamson (the Stooge's guitar player, who stayed on as sort of Iggy's musical sidekick [he contributed to composing a lot of "Raw Power's" music] after "Raw Power" tanked, and the band folded - he helped co-produce Iggy's "Kill City" album), digs his heels in (he did not like the change in musical direction Iggy Popp was making), does not quit collaborating with Iggy, and convinces him to stay the course musically.
Yeah, that would probably have more impact than simply "Iggy & the Stooges make a 4th album". The albums that came out of Iggy & Bowie's Berlin experience were hugely influential in the post-punk scene. Iggy releasing 'The Idiot' showed that you didn't have to be a master chameleon like Bowie to go industrial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_the_Tiger
If Stallone is able to get "Another One Bites the Dust", is Survivor's career completely derailed, or just delayed?
If Stallone is able to get "Another One Bites the Dust", is Survivor's career completely derailed, or just delayed?
Tovarich
Banned
^
This!
People forget LSD was used for a long while as legitimate psychiatric medication, but non-prescribed/observed usage could be just as damaging as 'anything goes' usage of Lithium would be today!
Leaving aside arguments about liberalisation/tightening of drug laws (I favour the former!), I do feel that historically speaking it is Gilmour's more Hendrix-influenced style of solo-guitar which led to 'Floyd's super-popularity, more than (although not exclusive from) Waters' lyrical storytelling.
I think that David Gilmour's guitar playing (which being a longtime guitar player, with some rock band experience, I like quite a bit), was a major contribuition to Pink Floyd's success. The band always knew that David Gilmour was a much better player than Syd Barrett was (along with being a longtime friend of at least some of the band members, David Gilmour's guitar chops, are why he was hired to play with Pink Floyd). IMO, Syd Barrett was a more utilitarian guitar player. His main musical strength, was his artistic creativity, which made him the main creative force in the band, until 1968. When Syd was pushed away from Pink Floyd by the rest of the band, 3 albums of uneven/so-so material (A Saucerful of Secrets [which with the exception of "Jugband Blues", was all done with without Syd], Ummagumma, and Atom Heart Mother), were recorded, before the band finally found it's artistic stride again with the Meddle album (LOVE the song "Fearless" on that album, and if there was one reason why I'd buy a Fender Stratocaster [in 36 years of guitar playing, I've never been a big fan of Strats], it would be that song), and really hit the bigtime, with the subseqent Dark Side of The Moon album.
Kicking Syd out of Pink Floyd, left a very big pair of artistic shoes to be filled. Here's a thought - maybe if they were able to somehow get Syd at least semi-mentally stable, maybe he could have sort of been kept in Pink Floyd, mainly as a song writer (sort of like Bernie Taupin was for Elton John in the 70s). He'd be out of the spotlight, which would certainly remove a mental stressor from him, and while he still would have been (for lack of a better term) a little crazy (after all, he did recover a bit mentally as the years went by - he just wasn't as crazy), he might have had enough artistic focus to continue writing songs. And, with the band still in his life, and (hopefully) paying attention to his physical health, he might not have suffered as badly from the diabetes that eventually killed him, and would still be alive today.
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Probably just delayed - although they may not have been as big success-wise IMO. Survivor released two albums before "Eye of The Tiger" was in the Rocky III movie, that weren't very successful, but considering that they had 4 hit songs after "Eye of The Tiger" was a hit, they did have musical potential. Whether it was a case of them just needing a few albums under their belt (like Rush, Kiss, and REO Speedwagon, and [to an extent] Metallica) to find their musical groove, or a case of one song ("Eye of The Tiger") being hyped enough to put Survivor over the top sucess-wise, is open for debate.
From all the biographies I've read, Pink Floyd actually considered keeping Syd as a songwriter but not touring with him (it's often compered to the Beach Boys arrangement with Brian Wilson, which must have been an inspiration), but it proved to be unworkable. An oft-mentioned story from that time is when they were rehearsing a new song called "Have you got it yet?" Which Syd constantly changed to make it impossible to learn.
The choice of who replaces Syd is interesting - in OTL they went for the most convenient option & it paid off. It's interesting to speculate in who they may have chosen instead - either a talented guitarist with no songwriting history or a decent songwriter who's no guitar genius. (Its hard to find someone who's both).
In terms of keeping Syd Barrett in Floyd longer-part of it depends on precisely when the decision was made to abandon the touring band vs. studio band idea-and whether or not Floyd could allow Barrett the break he clearly needed between the Summer of 1967 and the Fall of 1968. Note-I'm not talking about Barrett as a permanent member but something like him staying around for another album or so.
Barrett was always very difficult to work with after his breakdown but during the period between the summer of 1967 and early 1968 he was harder to work with than he would be thereafter by most accounts-which is saying something. By 1969 he was marginally in better shape-he was still difficult to work with on a consistent basis-but he was able to present good material and he was able to complete a full album with the help of his ex-bandmates-which he could not have done in 1967 or 1968.
By 1969 Barrett had reportedly spent some time being institutionalized in Cambridge.
If Barrett had been in the shape he was in 1969/1970 in 1967-the studio vs. touring band idea might have worked for at least one album. Although there would still be problems because Barrett seems not to have liked that idea. There are reports of him showing up at Floyd performances after he'd been kicked out and glaring resentfully at David Gilmour. From what I can tell that strict division wasn't the initial idea-the initial idea is that Barrett would still tour with Pink Floyd and Gilmour would simply make sure that a guitar was playing in case Barrett didn't play. It was only after that idea proved unworkable that the band decided to try the Brian Wilson approach.
The larger problem is-even to reach that state Barrett needed time away from the pressure inherent in the band-and because he was the driving creative force up until his departure-the band arguably couldn't allow him to take a break and then return to the fold when he was marginally better. The other problem is that they underestimated the shape Barrett was in for a long time-which means it took awhile for him to receive the help he needed.
If Barrett had had his 1968 experience slightly earlier-and had somehow ended up in an institution before the band had definitively decided to abandon the idea of ever working with him as even a nominal member of Pink Floyd-perhaps they could have allowed him to return to the fold when he decides later on that he wants to return to music? After all, if it happens early enough the band hasn't tested the idea of keeping him in as a non-touring member yet. It's worth noting that the various members of Pink Floyd did contribute to Barrett's solo work.
In that case I could see a Floyd album with a handful of Barrett songs showing up at some point in 1969 or 1970.
Without a much earlier divergence that unlikely scenario is the only way I can see Barrett remaining in the Floyd longer than he did.
As I said-this is not at all a likely scenario-but keeping Barrett as even a nominal member of Pink Floyd is difficult after his breakdown.
Part of the problem there is that even when Barrett was at his best during his solo period his new songs didn't really fit with what his old band was doing at the time. Even if Barrett had somehow-magically-recovered completely by 1969 or 1970-even if he magically returned to being who he was before the breakdown-there might not have been a place for him in the Pink Floyd that developed after his departure.
As I said, my scenario is not a likely one-but keeping him even nominally a member of Pink Floyd is really really difficult without an early divergence as Flippikat noted.
Barrett was always very difficult to work with after his breakdown but during the period between the summer of 1967 and early 1968 he was harder to work with than he would be thereafter by most accounts-which is saying something. By 1969 he was marginally in better shape-he was still difficult to work with on a consistent basis-but he was able to present good material and he was able to complete a full album with the help of his ex-bandmates-which he could not have done in 1967 or 1968.
By 1969 Barrett had reportedly spent some time being institutionalized in Cambridge.
If Barrett had been in the shape he was in 1969/1970 in 1967-the studio vs. touring band idea might have worked for at least one album. Although there would still be problems because Barrett seems not to have liked that idea. There are reports of him showing up at Floyd performances after he'd been kicked out and glaring resentfully at David Gilmour. From what I can tell that strict division wasn't the initial idea-the initial idea is that Barrett would still tour with Pink Floyd and Gilmour would simply make sure that a guitar was playing in case Barrett didn't play. It was only after that idea proved unworkable that the band decided to try the Brian Wilson approach.
The larger problem is-even to reach that state Barrett needed time away from the pressure inherent in the band-and because he was the driving creative force up until his departure-the band arguably couldn't allow him to take a break and then return to the fold when he was marginally better. The other problem is that they underestimated the shape Barrett was in for a long time-which means it took awhile for him to receive the help he needed.
If Barrett had had his 1968 experience slightly earlier-and had somehow ended up in an institution before the band had definitively decided to abandon the idea of ever working with him as even a nominal member of Pink Floyd-perhaps they could have allowed him to return to the fold when he decides later on that he wants to return to music? After all, if it happens early enough the band hasn't tested the idea of keeping him in as a non-touring member yet. It's worth noting that the various members of Pink Floyd did contribute to Barrett's solo work.
In that case I could see a Floyd album with a handful of Barrett songs showing up at some point in 1969 or 1970.
Without a much earlier divergence that unlikely scenario is the only way I can see Barrett remaining in the Floyd longer than he did.
As I said-this is not at all a likely scenario-but keeping Barrett as even a nominal member of Pink Floyd is difficult after his breakdown.
Part of the problem there is that even when Barrett was at his best during his solo period his new songs didn't really fit with what his old band was doing at the time. Even if Barrett had somehow-magically-recovered completely by 1969 or 1970-even if he magically returned to being who he was before the breakdown-there might not have been a place for him in the Pink Floyd that developed after his departure.
As I said, my scenario is not a likely one-but keeping him even nominally a member of Pink Floyd is really really difficult without an early divergence as Flippikat noted.
Here's a divergence I've mentioned in another thread that might be prove interesting-what if the Beatles had better sound equipment after August 1965?
The band had a concert in Atlanta in which they were provided with phenomenally better equipment-to the point where they could actually hear themselves.
Brian Epstein attempted to hire the company responsible to provide similar equipment for the remainder of their tour-but the company declined.
What if they hadn't-or at least what if Epstein was able to find a company that would provide Atlanta quality equipment for subsequent venues?
Meaning-what if the Beatles could hear themselves on tour during the remainder of the summer of 1965 tour and the subsequent 1966 tour?
The band had a concert in Atlanta in which they were provided with phenomenally better equipment-to the point where they could actually hear themselves.
Brian Epstein attempted to hire the company responsible to provide similar equipment for the remainder of their tour-but the company declined.
What if they hadn't-or at least what if Epstein was able to find a company that would provide Atlanta quality equipment for subsequent venues?
Meaning-what if the Beatles could hear themselves on tour during the remainder of the summer of 1965 tour and the subsequent 1966 tour?
To continue the category of plane crashes; there is Glenn Miller disappearing over the Channel in 1944.
Dying Stars: Robert Johnson surviving a night in a Delta bar.
Janisis friends show up at the hotel room & she is hauled off to the hospital & rehab.
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How about 'Career Divergences'
I've posted it elsewhere but; Suzi Quattro remaining in Detroit or the US vs her London move & Euro career.
Jimmy Paige passes on the Yardbirds contract & trys working his vision in different venues & contacts.
Mick Jager loses the phone number for contacting the RS & continues looking at other bands around London.
Dying Stars: Robert Johnson surviving a night in a Delta bar.
Janisis friends show up at the hotel room & she is hauled off to the hospital & rehab.
***************************
How about 'Career Divergences'
I've posted it elsewhere but; Suzi Quattro remaining in Detroit or the US vs her London move & Euro career.
Jimmy Paige passes on the Yardbirds contract & trys working his vision in different venues & contacts.
Mick Jager loses the phone number for contacting the RS & continues looking at other bands around London.