Would a sucsessfull polish space program be possible?
- Thread starter Das Amerikan
- Start date
If USSR decide to install an aerospace industry, some kind of space communication/mission installations or, for some weird reason, a secondary launch pad in Poland, why not ?
The problem is the founding of such institution wich can cost millions but if there already embryo of installations it could be an incentive to continue in that direction.
( but everyones know that poland cannot into space
)
The problem is the founding of such institution wich can cost millions but if there already embryo of installations it could be an incentive to continue in that direction.
( but everyones know that poland cannot into space
)Old Airman
Banned
Poland does not have sufficiently-sized economy to support such an endeavor on NASA scale. However, it might have something second-tire, akin to, say, Israeli space program. Or, in a universe where it remained part of surviving Russian Empire post-WWI, it might be an "aerospace capital of the Empire" (technically the program would be Imperial but in fact it might be run by Polish companies).
Depends on what do you want from that space program. Sending a man to the Moon or even to the orbit would be impossible (costs) but independent sattelites and later cooperating with other countries is a different thing. Of course, if we have fully independent Poland, with normal economy and whatnot.
In fact there was a begginning of polish space program, but it was cut by the Soviets who wanted to keep monopoly on rocket tech in the eastern bloc (or something like that).
In fact there was a begginning of polish space program, but it was cut by the Soviets who wanted to keep monopoly on rocket tech in the eastern bloc (or something like that).
NASA-level? Nah. Satellites, pan-European team-ups, and ISS involvement? Sure, if the USSR had put facilities in Poland and they'd stuck around post-communism.
Not happening with a POD after 1991. Even before that, you'd have to get Poland annexed to the USSR so that Poland might get a Ukraine-like treatment--that is, a Soviet design bureau is assigned to some part of Poland.
PODs before 1939 present other possibilities--if there is no general European war after WWI, and the Second Polish Republic survives the rest of the twentieth century, a Polish rocket program culminating in satellites and maybe even a crewed program (if Poland has some sort of Tiger-like economic boom) is possible.
And then there's Miedzymorze possibilities, where Poland commands the resources of most of Eastern Europe. But at that point, the twentieth century as a whole becomes unrecognizable.
PODs before 1939 present other possibilities--if there is no general European war after WWI, and the Second Polish Republic survives the rest of the twentieth century, a Polish rocket program culminating in satellites and maybe even a crewed program (if Poland has some sort of Tiger-like economic boom) is possible.
And then there's Miedzymorze possibilities, where Poland commands the resources of most of Eastern Europe. But at that point, the twentieth century as a whole becomes unrecognizable.
Mirosław Hermaszewski and the Magma2 Mars rover beg to differ.
So, Polan can into space!!!
Yuelang
Banned
Mirosław Hermaszewski is hero of Soviet Union
He may be Polish by blood, but at the time of him being into space, he's technically not a Polish Citizen but Ukrainian SSR Citizen.
He's only move back to Poland when the Soviet party decides to put him as a member of the Military Council of National Salvation in Poland without his consent or knowledge. And once he goes back to being Polish citizen...
Nope, not into space again...
So this stands true, Poland cannot into space
He may be Polish by blood, but at the time of him being into space, he's technically not a Polish Citizen
but Ukrainian SSR Citizen.He's only move back to Poland when the Soviet party decides to put him as a member of the Military Council of National Salvation in Poland without his consent or knowledge. And once he goes back to being Polish citizen...
Nope, not into space again...
So this stands true, Poland cannot into space
Old Airman
Banned
He was not a Soviet citizen after 1945. Wiki says: "After the incorporation of former Polish territory into the Ukrainian SSR at the end of the war, what was left of Hermaszewski's family were deported to Wołów near Wrocław, where he completed elementary and high school. In 1965, he graduated from the military pilot school in Dęblin. In 1978, he was chosen from almost 500 Polish pilots to take part in the Intercosmos space program." Polish article expands on it. He lived in SU in 1976-1978 (training for the space flight) and in 1981-198? (no later than 1987, when he was appointed the commander of the Higher Military Aviation School )He may be Polish by blood, but at the time of him being into space, he's technically not a Polish Citizen
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Poland can't into space, it is known. People who claim Poland can into space are lying and spreading capitalist dog propaganda.
But seriously, not independant program. During cold war Soviets will nip it in the bud and/or roll it into their program. After cold war it makes no sense to porsue independant one when they can join European program instead.
What is possible, with several PODs, is that Soviets create multinational program and Poland specilises in some component. Not sure how likely is that and whether Poland actually has base, both human and technological, to be serious contributor.
But seriously, not independant program. During cold war Soviets will nip it in the bud and/or roll it into their program. After cold war it makes no sense to porsue independant one when they can join European program instead.
What is possible, with several PODs, is that Soviets create multinational program and Poland specilises in some component. Not sure how likely is that and whether Poland actually has base, both human and technological, to be serious contributor.
WW2 never happens, Poland keeps an uneasy peace with the Soviets and continues to converge with the countries of Western Europe economically. In the late 40s, as interest in rocket technology spreads, the Polish government seizes on space exploration as a way to satisfy the Polish colonial lobby without getting any distracting colonies and as a means to develop a potential weapons system without unduly alarming the neighbours.
The Poles end up in a space race with the Soviets (not that they are the only powers exploring space, there is also a Franco-British space race and a German-American space race going on at the same time and any country claiming to be a great power has a satellite program going by 1970 at the latest). Both powers focus on Earth orbit activities - spy sats, space telescopes, GPS systems, men in orbit and eventually space stations in orbit.
(I ran some numbers for this TL-let - assuming Poland experiences an average level of population growth after 1938, by 1980, the country would have a population somewhere between 70-90 million people. If the ATL Poland had a GDP/capita on the level of 1980s Italy then the country would have a GDP of between 590 billion USD and 760 billion USD - in OTL the UK had a GDP of 567 billion USD in 1980, France had a GDP of 703 billion USD in 1980 and the USSR had something like 993 billion USD for their GDP in 1983 - of course, without WW2, the rest of Europe would also be richer and more populous - Germany, for example, has the potential of being a true super power in no-WW2 ATLs - I quote the numbers just to illustrate than Poland without WW2 would have the absolute wealth to afford a Soviet-sized space program - though something like an Apollo-style moonshot is beyond even a no-WW2-Poland.)
fasquardon
The Poles end up in a space race with the Soviets (not that they are the only powers exploring space, there is also a Franco-British space race and a German-American space race going on at the same time and any country claiming to be a great power has a satellite program going by 1970 at the latest). Both powers focus on Earth orbit activities - spy sats, space telescopes, GPS systems, men in orbit and eventually space stations in orbit.
(I ran some numbers for this TL-let - assuming Poland experiences an average level of population growth after 1938, by 1980, the country would have a population somewhere between 70-90 million people. If the ATL Poland had a GDP/capita on the level of 1980s Italy then the country would have a GDP of between 590 billion USD and 760 billion USD - in OTL the UK had a GDP of 567 billion USD in 1980, France had a GDP of 703 billion USD in 1980 and the USSR had something like 993 billion USD for their GDP in 1983 - of course, without WW2, the rest of Europe would also be richer and more populous - Germany, for example, has the potential of being a true super power in no-WW2 ATLs - I quote the numbers just to illustrate than Poland without WW2 would have the absolute wealth to afford a Soviet-sized space program - though something like an Apollo-style moonshot is beyond even a no-WW2-Poland.)
fasquardon
I'm sorry, but, which colonial lobby? The colonial lobby for acquiring the border of pre 1772?
There was a lobby for acquiring parts of Africa and South America. They proposed to ship the Jews off, IIRC. They were a vocal but small group, but IIRC neither the Sanacja regime nor its opponents paid much attention to it.