WI: Pyotr III Had Freed Ivan VI?

As it says on the box. Pyotr III, Emperor of Russia, paid a visit to Ivan VI at his prison. And according to the accounts, he even spoke of freeing Ivan. Unfortunately, Ekaterina II’s coup foiled that plan. And Ivan was murdered without ever having seen the sky.

Say Pyotr had managed to free Ivan. And, perhaps Ivan’s dad and siblings were included in that freedom. A reasonably sane person would countenance against letting them out the country, perhaps even barring them from court. What would happen to those Antonovichi? Would Ekaterina II simply be able to pop them back into some sort of Kholmogory prison?

JonasResende said:

As it says on the box. Pyotr III, Emperor of Russia, paid a visit to Ivan VI at his prison. And according to the accounts, he even spoke of freeing Ivan. Unfortunately, Ekaterina II’s coup foiled that plan. And Ivan was murdered without ever having seen the sky.

Say Pyotr had managed to free Ivan. And, perhaps Ivan’s dad and siblings were included in that freedom. A reasonably sane person would countenance against letting them out the country, perhaps even barring them from court. What would happen to those Antonovichi? Would Ekaterina II simply be able to pop them back into some sort of Kholmogory prison?

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I assume that he'd seen the sky when he was a baby-Tsar.

That minor (and pointless) point aside, Ekaterina II will still do her level best to imprison/execute them, but if she fails, then they could be a decent focus for some sort of revolt against her regime. There were certainly a surfeit of peasant uprisings led by people pretending to be an escaped Pyotr III. There's also the possibility that Ekaterina might select one of them as her heir over Pavel, but as they'd spent most of their lives in captivity, they probably wouldn't be any more suitable as successors than the guy who grew up in the gilded cage of the Winter Palace.

If any of them are still alive when/if Pavel dies without children (maybe if his first wife stubbornly refuses to die) then that's their big chance, I reckon.

Uhura's Mazda said:

I assume that he'd seen the sky when he was a baby-Tsar.

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Uhura's Mazda said:

Ekaterina II will still do her level best to imprison/execute them, but if she fails, then they could be a decent focus for some sort of revolt against her regime. There were certainly a surfeit of peasant uprisings led by people pretending to be an escaped Pyotr III. There's also the possibility that Ekaterina might select one of them as her heir over Pavel, but as they'd spent most of their lives in captivity, they probably wouldn't be any more suitable as successors than the guy who grew up in the gilded cage of the Winter Palace.

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Well PYotr was on the throne for a few months in 1762. At that point, the Antonovichs are Ivan (22), Ekaterina (21), Yelizaveta (19), Pyotr (17) and Alexei (16). Ekaterina was reportedly hard of hearing as a result of being dropped on her head during the coup that had deposed her parents, and was rather withdrawn as a result. Yelizaveta was the family beauty, as well as the leader of their little troupe. One of the boys (can't remember if Petya or Alex) had a slightly deformed spine. And, while having spent all their life up to 1762 in prison - they could read, write and the girls knew embroidery (their father taught them to read and write etc), and Ekaterina even knew how to read lips, but she couldn't understand any language but Russian. Which was why as the last of her surviving siblings, she sent an unanswered letter to Alexander I begging to be allowed to return to Russia from Denmark.

Pyotr was also rather fond of his Holstein cousins (I seem to recall an occasion where he held them in higher regard than he did the Russian aristocracy, even toasting them as "Imperial Highness" after the Russian manner. His wife, suitably pissed off, refused to acknowledge this), so I could almost think that he will marry one of the sisters off to a Holsteiner, at least. But this is just idle speculation.

For them to remain safe, it sounds like you need to avoid Pyotr's death. For them to thrive, you need to do away with Pavel or his children. And still, they've grown up in a bleedin' prison, so there's going to be some deep-seated psychological issues. However good they are at writing, they're still going to be emotionally illiterate. All in all, this is a promising development in terms of the soap opera nature of the Romanovs (is it just me, or do they get surprisingly boring in between the parricidal Napoleon-fan and the cuckoldee of Rasputin?)

I wonder, if one believes wiki's article on Anton Ulrich's daughter Yelizaveta, a source states that she had an illegitimate child by one Ivan Trifonov. However, I don't speak Russian, so have no way of knowing whether there's any truth to this story. Would be cool if Yelizaveta Antonovna were to have a dalliance with a guard or two much like her namesake the empress.

I'll try to translate it if I have free time.

Uhura's Mazda said:

(is it just me, or do they get surprisingly boring in between the parricidal Napoleon-fan and the cuckoldee of Rasputin?)

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Who actually is the "cuckoldee" of Rasputin? Nicholas II? No one actually believes Alix cheated on her husband these days. It was not in her character and there is no evidence of it.

As for soap operas, how about the Decembrist revolt - Nicholas I taking the throne while his older brother Constantine was alive, the rumors Alexander I never died, Alexander II putting his mistress (and kids by her) into the same palace as his dying wife, Alexander III marrying his late brother's fiancee, because his later brother wished it - plenty of soap operas there.

As for the Antonovich children. I've always been surprised Elizabeth, Peter III or Catherine weren't at least a bit more curious about them. Outside of Peter III (and eventually Paul I), they were actually the only living Romanovs. What would happen to Catherine (nee Sophie of Anhalt-Zerbst) if Paul had died of some illness?

Valena said:

I'll try to translate it if I have free time.

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Thanks, I appreciate it

According to the article (I omit generic trivia at the beginning), the last descendant of Romanov-Miloslavsky line blood was born in 1767 from romance between Princess Elisabeth Antonovna and sergeant Ivan Trifonov. They spend a lot of quality time together (Ivan presented the Princess a dog, played cards with her, played violin for her). Then Ivan's superior Major Myachkov learned of affair and Trifonov was recalled to St Petersburg.

Soon it was found out that Ivan has a bastard son, who obviously was passed as the son of a random whore, called Ilya (Ilya Ivanovich Trifonov). Trifonov moved to the backwater town Kovrov, where he married to a widow from local gentry and lived in her estate.
Ilya served in the Russian army and died in 1804, apparently childless. He made his step-brother Nikolai Kishkin the heir of "all his rights". Normally that presumed the estate in Kovrov, but the author theorizes that the Trifonovs might have tried to claim the inheritance of Romanov-Miloslavsky line rights.

The article goes on to claim that the name Ilya was dynastic in House of Romanov, but aside from isolated case of short-lived son of Feodor III I don't remember any boys with such name, so that's not a solid argument IMO. And the claim of the Kishkins (stepbrothers to a (probable) Royal bastard) amy only make generic regional news trivia (like this article, for example). It would have been laughed out of courts by say the Saltykovs - same "kinship" argument but with legitimate royal line.

Thanks, Valena

Okay, so then we can gather from this article that even if the claim is bogus, these girls (or at least Yelizaveta) theoretically had no problems having children.

And as long as Paul doesn't have children, these kids are disturbingly too close to the throne. Ekaterina II offered Anton several times to return to Germany. He refused unless he could take his kids (legitimate and illegitimate) with him.

However, as I said above, Pyotr has a Russia that is theoretically without allies after he turns the Three Petticoats' League (Russia, France & Austria) on its head. These kids, while they do have the aforementioned disturbingly close relation to the imperial diadem, are the closest Russia has at the time, to imperial grand dukes/duchesses. Pyotr might decide that since this is Russia (and you can just throw people at your enemies while you wait for winter - see Carl XII, Napoleon and Hitler), he can use the girls to strengthen alliances abroad. Marrying them inside Russia OTOH is risky, as it seemingly invites whoever knocks one of them up to claim that his line has a better claim than your Pauline Romanovs (who Ekaterina II claimed weren't fathered by her husband).