What chances does Irish have if Ireland goes protestant when England does with no catholic rebellions? I believe that it would thrive a) due to the lack of any protestant plantations or replacements of the aristocracy the language would have no reason to loose out and b) the Irish Language bible and protestant services would boost the language and enrich it with more litterature and literacy
Poll: How would Irish fare with Ireland as protestant as England
- Thread starter Abdominalz
- Start date
Nocrazy
Banned
And what does that mean? The Irish language was seen as barbarian, and was repressed. It would be dead.
Holy shit, ARE YOU A LOYALIST BASTARD?
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Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
First, make your point without insulting people.
Second, this is an alternate history site. If you select a POD far enough back in history, it's very easy to imagine a Protestant Ireland. Or a Muslim Ireland, or an Ireland that speaks a Romance language, or an Ireland inhabited by sentient dinosaurs. Okay, maybe that last one belongs in the ASB forum, but you get my point.
Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
Too bad. No one has the right to be rude just because someone posits a scenario that doesn't reflect their ethnicity in a way they want.
Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
Since you edited in this "LOYALIST BASTARD" line after being warned to behave yourself, I'm just going to assume that the warning didn't take.
You're kicked for a week, during which time you'll be unable to post. When you come back, act like an adult and have some basic civility.
This could probably lead to the Irish becoming a lot more assimilated into British culture than they were in OTL. If it made the English more sympathetic to the Irish, helping them avoid the Potato Famine and being less bigoted, it could very well lead to the entirety of Ireland remaining with the UK. Or, if it did not, it could lead to the entirety of Ireland leaving the UK.
One important question to ask is "what type of Protestant"? Anglicans like England? Presbyterians like Scotland? Lutherans or Methodists or Baptists or some other Protestant branch?
One important question to ask is "what type of Protestant"? Anglicans like England? Presbyterians like Scotland? Lutherans or Methodists or Baptists or some other Protestant branch?
I always wondered why Ireland stayed Catholic, especially with its tradition of independent churches. Was it just to resist the English?
I think it would partially depend on what branch of Protestant they chose,
Because they'd then be more ideologically aligned with Scotland or England, and probably prefer one to the other,
Would have interesting effects when you get to the British Civil War, If Ireland was on side probably no Cromwellian massacres for one,(depending on whether they join in the Presbyterian Scots Prayer book revolt) and so relations are better
If Ireland decided to side against England in wars with Scottish or Dutch in 15/1600's... well it's always been described as a back-door to invasion so England would definitely have to deal with it somehow, probably leading to the conquering and/or something similar to plantation, or at least an English ruling class being instated with garrison troops to keep order(I'm aware how speculative and vague this is sorry it's late
)
If no major clashes(no worse than those experienced by Scotland) possibly remain a part of Unified Isles and hence fewer of the problems in OTL, although no royal house ties in OTL to help along, could some sort of diplomatic alliance or even more extreme merging into a unified whole occur?
Because they'd then be more ideologically aligned with Scotland or England, and probably prefer one to the other,
Would have interesting effects when you get to the British Civil War, If Ireland was on side probably no Cromwellian massacres for one,(depending on whether they join in the Presbyterian Scots Prayer book revolt) and so relations are better
If Ireland decided to side against England in wars with Scottish or Dutch in 15/1600's... well it's always been described as a back-door to invasion so England would definitely have to deal with it somehow, probably leading to the conquering and/or something similar to plantation, or at least an English ruling class being instated with garrison troops to keep order(I'm aware how speculative and vague this is sorry it's late
)If no major clashes(no worse than those experienced by Scotland) possibly remain a part of Unified Isles and hence fewer of the problems in OTL, although no royal house ties in OTL to help along, could some sort of diplomatic alliance or even more extreme merging into a unified whole occur?
Fearless Leader
Donor
Had Ireland gone Protestant it also would have likely not maintained the same ties with Spain and other Catholic powers, thus removing a major geopolitical threat from England. The specter of resurgent Catholicism would be so diminished England might pursue a more lenient policy towards Catholics much earlier than OTL.
IMO had Ireland gone protestant it would have been a different type than the CoE and thus the island still would have undergone some persecution. But without ties to the Catholic world, this persecution would have ended earlier than OTL.
IMO had Ireland gone protestant it would have been a different type than the CoE and thus the island still would have undergone some persecution. But without ties to the Catholic world, this persecution would have ended earlier than OTL.
Well, in OTL we have the cases of Welsh, Scottish Gaelic and Cornish, all spoken in regions that eventually adopted Protestantism. The first managed to survive reasonably well to the present day, the second nearly became extinct, and the third became extinct in the 18th century.
I guess the question is, what allowed Welsh to survive as an important language despite English political domination, and could those same conditions exist in an Ireland that is Protestant?
I guess the question is, what allowed Welsh to survive as an important language despite English political domination, and could those same conditions exist in an Ireland that is Protestant?
TFSmith121
Banned
Gaelic (or Celtic) Reformed Church?
Something approximating the simple (low church/dissenters) of Scots Prebyterianism or Welsh Methodism, past the travails of the Tudors but late enough so the Irish are likely allies of the "plain" Protestantism of Cromwell et al?
Couple that with an Irish Renaissance with some Gaelic/Celtic cultural and linguistic elements, and presumably Ireland remains "Irish," but without the internal divisions, or the ability of the English to play favorites?
Best,
Something approximating the simple (low church/dissenters) of Scots Prebyterianism or Welsh Methodism, past the travails of the Tudors but late enough so the Irish are likely allies of the "plain" Protestantism of Cromwell et al?
Couple that with an Irish Renaissance with some Gaelic/Celtic cultural and linguistic elements, and presumably Ireland remains "Irish," but without the internal divisions, or the ability of the English to play favorites?
Best,
Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
Welsh is most widely spoken in the remote mountainous parts of North Wales, just like Irish only really hangs on in the furthest West. I do know that Welsh was associated with non-conformist churches in Wales, not sure how much the Catholic church encouraged Irish.
Pangur
Donor
As far as I know they did not encourage or support the Irish language. Going back to the OP I don't see how these dots join. Its already been pointed out that the Scots got the shitty end of the stick from the English even though they were mostly protestant. You also have to add to the mix that anti Irish bigotry predates the reformation and dates from the Norman times - example Giraldus Cambrensi. My guess is that it would have no difference
Wouldn't Irish language be preserved mainly through Irish nationalist movements? Wouldn't the biggest deciding factor as to whether it remains in use be if Irish nationalism still develops? There were plenty of Protestant Irish nationalists OTL, so I don't see why it wouldn't happen, but I wonder if it will be as successful as OTL if Ireland is Protestant.
Pangur
Donor
The odds on that are pretty much nil. The world is way too interconnected for someone to be able to survive with out speaking English.