What it says. Have the Baltic's, Prussia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia considered German.
Edit: POD must be pre-1900.
Edit: POD must be pre-1900.
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AHC: The Baltic's considered German
- Thread starter Samuel Von Straßburg
- Start date
1. Richer Livonian brotherhood can actually attract German settlers - as it always wished.
2. OTL: from 13th century to mid 19th century (at least as far as Latvia and Estonia goes). The symbiotic society of Latvians & Estonians and Germans wasn't entirely German (Germans never made more than 5% of society), but them being the intellectuals, urban inhabitants, aristocrats, industrialists, militarists.. well, they ruled the society.
2. OTL: from 13th century to mid 19th century (at least as far as Latvia and Estonia goes). The symbiotic society of Latvians & Estonians and Germans wasn't entirely German (Germans never made more than 5% of society), but them being the intellectuals, urban inhabitants, aristocrats, industrialists, militarists.. well, they ruled the society.
given that its posted in Pre-1900, that should have been brainnumbingly obvious even without you having to spell it out,
that said, more successful Livonian Brotherhood is the most likely way to go, given that the Teutonic order largely succeeded with the same thing with the Prussians (which IIRC largely consisted of a local germanic tribe, which were no more German than Scandinavia were)
that said, more successful Livonian Brotherhood is the most likely way to go, given that the Teutonic order largely succeeded with the same thing with the Prussians (which IIRC largely consisted of a local germanic tribe, which were no more German than Scandinavia were)
You'd have to offer a big incentive for Germans to undertake the arduous sea journey to Livonia. OTL, even the offers of free farmland barely helped. (And no, keeping Samogitia probably wouldn't make much difference in that regard.)
Making it "wealthier" is easier said than done too.
A big part of why Prussia was so easily and heavily Germanized was that it was very close to the Holy Roman Empire proper, and that a lot of the local Prussians (A Baltic tribe, not a Germanic one) died to various epidemics over the years. You can have the latter in Livonia too, and it might even help slightly, but unless you involve an ASB, it's not going to get any closer to the HRE any time soon.
Making it "wealthier" is easier said than done too.
A big part of why Prussia was so easily and heavily Germanized was that it was very close to the Holy Roman Empire proper, and that a lot of the local Prussians (A Baltic tribe, not a Germanic one) died to various epidemics over the years. You can have the latter in Livonia too, and it might even help slightly, but unless you involve an ASB, it's not going to get any closer to the HRE any time soon.
If the roman empire manages to conquer entire Germania up to the Vistula, some german tribes would evade to the East, like e.g. the Marcomanns did from South Germany to Bohemia.
And so the baltic region becomes german. Well, I am afraid, this is not the POD you expected. But it is pre-1900. Even if a bit unlikely.
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Probaly the best option is to have the Teutonic Order spread Low German with Christianity as if it were a two for one kind of thing. With Low German being the language of power, policies should be implemented to make it the only language taught and spoken publicly in the region. With Chritianty and Low German considered the core of society the Baltic and Slavic tongues in the region will greatly decrease in number. Hold back the growing influence of a Polish and Russian states, this lingustic situation should remain strong until German Unification. German gradually becomes the main language with Low German seen as the predominate regional Language.
AussieHawker
Banned
Maybe if there is a clear land route from Germany to the Baltics. Maybe several crusading orders along the Baltic Coast that form a Catholic Buffer against the Orthodox Russian.
Maybe a sort of People Crusade that settles along the Baltic Coastline because of continued Pagan presence or because of a more hostile Relation with Eastern Orthodox.
-Kingdom of Sweden unites the area in the 17th century and defeats Russian attempts to overrun it.
-Prince Oscar of Sweden dies in 1855
-Denmark under King Christian joins German Confederation in 1865 (he actually offered to in OTL!)
-Danish royal family seen as higher Dukes in German orbit instead of actual royalty by many in Europe as a result
-Germans unite under Hohenzollerns, Princess Louisa promised to Wilhelm II (8 years his senior but unites Scandinavia and Germany in one swoop)
-Louisa becomes queen of Sweden upon death of her father: the male line of the House of Bernadotte is extinguished
-Wilhelm and Louisa rule over a unified polyglot nation surrounding the Baltic as "A German Lake".
-Prince Oscar of Sweden dies in 1855
-Denmark under King Christian joins German Confederation in 1865 (he actually offered to in OTL!)
-Danish royal family seen as higher Dukes in German orbit instead of actual royalty by many in Europe as a result
-Germans unite under Hohenzollerns, Princess Louisa promised to Wilhelm II (8 years his senior but unites Scandinavia and Germany in one swoop)
-Louisa becomes queen of Sweden upon death of her father: the male line of the House of Bernadotte is extinguished
-Wilhelm and Louisa rule over a unified polyglot nation surrounding the Baltic as "A German Lake".
Very unlikely for a Catholic crusading order, given the heavy usage of Latin as an administrative language. It should also be noted that attempting to forcefully spread your culture and language isn't necessarily that effective. If centuries of geographic proximity and a German administration was enough, countries like Slovenia and Czechia wouldn't exist today. You might, perhaps, achieve a somewhat larger German minority than OTL, but that's about it.
That was basically the case OTL, it's just that holding Samogitia against the Poles and Lithuanians turned out to be a tad too hard in the end. Traveling from the HRE to Livonia by land isn't exactly safe, even with a continuous Teutonic Order going from Pomerelia to Estonia, and would likely take even longer than the sea journey.
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AussieHawker
Banned
Czechia was a Kingdom within the HRE so it could stand up Culturally. Even then it took a Nationalist revival to stop it from being just being more of Germany. And Slovenia lost a lot of ground to German culture.
Also in Eastern Europe it wasn't as well developed in terms of Road networks. A earlier improvement might help to get more settlers in.
Also with a Later POD having invaders eg the Mongols Devastate the region and then be pushed out then German settlers could be Brought in to Serve to refill the land and as border Guards. Like what was done in the Balkans after the Ottomans which meant OTL Germany minorities around and lots of Hungarians in Eastern Romania. Or it could be done around this time if the Orders and a Pagan/Orthodox enemy end up ravaging the land like a Proto 30 years war.
Well, the Czech-German language border changed OTL until 1800.
However I don´t know why Slovenia was untouched(even if the city were German even in 1900).
I thought that Samotigia was harder to control because the local pagans fight really hard, not for external countries.
What is the problem with the travel? Is it harder than the transatlantic one?
Given that the Bohemian kingdom was under direct German rule for over 500 years, I'd argue that its kingdom status didn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things. The Slavic cultures within the HRE did lose ground to the Germans, but never to a point where modern observers would consider the areas in question "German." People back then certainly might, but that's mainly because of the "who cares about rustic peasant languages anyway?" attitude the German nobles and city-dwellers tended to have.
True. If the Teutonic Order somehow did manage to hold onto Samogitia, creating a string of strongholds along well-maintained roads from Pomerelia to Estonia, there might be hope for greater, if not sufficient, German settlement in the northern reaches of the Order states.
Pretty much the only way to achieve an ethnically German Livonia, yeah. It's not pretty, but German settlers aren't going to outnumber the local populations unless the local population numbers decline somehow.
There was always a solid core of Czechs in Bohemia and Moravia proper though, despite almost 1000 years of German settlement and being a member of a predominantly German HRE.
The pagans were, of course, also an issue. It wasn't the pagans who took Samogitia from the Order in the end though.
It's not harder than the transatlantic route per se, but it's still a rough sea journey, with less decent ships (not that the cogs were bad, mind you) than what was available later in history. (As well as less motivation to travel to the destination to begin with)
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