AHC/Q: Royal Marriages Between East Asian States

Municipal Engines

Europe is quite notable for the marriages between princes, princesses, dukes and duchesses and kings and queens of different states around the continent, a practice that lasted for centuries right up to the 20th Century.

Has the same happened for East Asia? Could it happen if it did not, specifically during the emergent nationalisms of the 19th and 20th Century? I understand that places like China, Korea and Japan are quite homogeneous and there has been historic hostility between these peoples, so that might be a problem. How popular would the dynasty be after such a marriage?
 
Avrorrange

Avrorrange

ray243 said:
Why do you assume that didn't happen?
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It was rare(extremely rare) and generally,it didn't happen.

The Korean royal family would get quite popular if their king married a princess from China,but I highly doubt China or Japan would be willing to assume such a move nor marry a royal family member of another country.When required,China generally sends fake princesses(essentially people who are suddenly adopted into the imperial family) or the distant relations of the emperor to marry foreign leaders.They regard such things as an insult and that it is better of princesses to marry someone from a good Han-Chinese family than become the Queen/Empress of a foreign country.
 
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WhatIsAUserName

There's no strong tradition of royal marriages between specifically China, Japan, and Korea, but there used to be a tradition involving China and some other states. See Heqin for an introduction. This was a Chinese example where women of the imperial house were sent to marry the leaders of other groups, generally northern nomadic peoples. But these rarely or never involved the men of the house marrying women from other countries, and never involved Korea or Japan at all. Also, heqin ended over a thousand years ago. In the past millennium, I can only think of one good example of royal marriage, and that is the marriage of Yuan women to Korea's Koryŏ Dynasty. However, that went strictly one way. Women of the Koryŏ house never married men of the Yuan house, or at least any important men, because all of the Yuan emperors were born to Mongol women. (Not the case for the Northern Yuan, if anybody considers that relatively relevant.)

But there are plenty of examples of early modern inter-ethnic marriages if you look at the Jin, Yuan, Ming, and Qing Dynasties, where the imperial house intermarried with people of other ethnicities. It just so happens that those other ethnic groups were within the boundaries of the empire. I don't think there are any Liao or Song examples though. In the early modern era, I don't think either Japan or post-Koryŏ Korea had any inter-ethnic marriages. A few men of the Chosŏn house married some Japanese women of aristocratic/imperial standing, but I think this was after Korea was annexed by Japan.
 
Avrorrange

Avrorrange

Heqin generally involves beautiful women who are not part of the imperial family suddenly adopted by the imperial family and sent to marry foreign rulers.Therefore,it's generally a sham.Only in very few occasions were actual princesses from China actually married to foreign rulers.
 

WhatIsAUserName

darthfanta said:
Heqin generally involves beautiful women who are not part of the imperial family suddenly adopted by the imperial family and sent to marry foreign rulers.Therefore,it's generally a sham.Only in very few occasions were actual princesses from China actually married to foreign rulers.
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But the honesty of the policy is not really the point of my post, is it? The heqin system did include real princesses. On rare occasion they were daughters of monarchs. In several cases they were from minor branches of the imperial family. If we're discussing whether there was a tradition of royal marriages, why does a discussion of non-royal marriages matter?
 

profxyz

In the East Asian system of dominant-tributary relations, it's not surprising to assume that royal marriages would be frowned upon as a 'lowering' of China's status (Japan as well, I would assume). I wonder if Korean princesses got sent off to China, however - certainly Joseon Korea's tribute to China sometimes came in the form of women.

The Aisin Gioro (Qing ruling clan) intermarried frequently with the Mongol clans under their rule (such as the Chahars) as part of their strategy to gain legitimacy amongst the Mongols.

The closest one gets to real royal marriages in the European sense (e.g. not heqin) in East Asia probably comes in the time of the Shang and Zhou dynasties (c.1000 BC-200 BC), both being loose agglomerations of clan-states based around a dominant leader. Intermarriage between the Shang/Zhou leadership and some of their more powerful vassals was not uncommon; King Wu of the Zhou, who eventually conquered the Shang, was a son-in-law of the last Shang King.
 
Vingilótë

Vingilótë

profxyz said:
In the East Asian system of dominant-tributary relations, it's not surprising to assume that royal marriages would be frowned upon as a 'lowering' of China's status (Japan as well, I would assume). I wonder if Korean princesses got sent off to China, however - certainly Joseon Korea's tribute to China sometimes came in the form of women.

The Aisin Gioro (Qing ruling clan) intermarried frequently with the Mongol clans under their rule (such as the Chahars) as part of their strategy to gain legitimacy amongst the Mongols.

The closest one gets to real royal marriages in the European sense (e.g. not heqin) in East Asia probably comes in the time of the Shang and Zhou dynasties (c.1000 BC-200 BC), both being loose agglomerations of clan-states based around a dominant leader. Intermarriage between the Shang/Zhou leadership and some of their more powerful vassals was not uncommon; King Wu of the Zhou, who eventually conquered the Shang, was a son-in-law of the last Shang King.
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The last bit you mentioned does remind me of another possible case, during any of the periods of Chinese disunity, I imagine there would probably have been marriage alliances between local warlords (albeit, not exactly truly royal), similar to what you describe in the Shang/Zhou period. The example I'm thinking of is Liu Bei's marriage to Sun Shangxiang in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel (though I imagine the real historical account might be somewhat different).
 

ray243

Everyone seems to forget some prominent marriages, including the famous example of the Ming princess marrying with the sultan of Meleka under Zheng he
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Royal Marriages in East Asia is unimportant because polygamous nature of their society. even if royal marriages happen, there are no guarantee that royal wives will gain important position or will provide next monarchs.

During Mongol/Yuan Era, Korea and Mongol do have a policy of royal marriage, Korea even considered "daughter-in-law states" by Yuan court.

From Wikipedia
The Goryeo became "quda" (marriage alliance) state of the Yuan dynasty and monarchs of Goryeo were mainly imperial sons in-law (khuregen). The Kings of Goryeo held an important status like other important families of Mardin, Uighurs and Mongols (Oirat, Hongirat, and Ikeres).[33][34] It is claimed that one of Goryeo monarchs was the most beloved grandson of Kublai Khan.[35]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goryeo#cite_note-35
 
BBadolato

BBadolato

The closest I have seen to royal marriages between East Asian states barring the previous Shu Wu marriage are several Sengoku period clans, although that's more state within a state. For example you had a triple marriage alliance between the Hojo,Takeda and Imagawa clans. Although usually you had some 2nd or 3rd sons become clan heads of smaller allied clans through marriage.
 

WhatIsAUserName

ray243 said:
Everyone seems to forget some prominent marriages, including the famous example of the Ming princess marrying with the sultan of Meleka under Zheng he
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If that did happen, it didn't involve any daughters of an Emperor, because their husbands are all documented. This is probably a fanciful legend or tale.

ramones1986 said:
I'm thinking of the states in the Malay Peninsula
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The Ming didn't do that historically, and they have no reason to do that either.
 
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