AHC: Longer Disco Backlash

John Fredrick Parker · Mar 16, 2015

FWIU, the backlash against disco and soul music started to abate in 1983, most notably with the success of Thriller singles. With PoDs in 1981 or 82, how can this process be dragged out, where the American public is still unreceptive (or even hostile) to disco-like or "black" music as late as 1985 or 86?

kung Zog · Mar 16, 2015

I don't have any concrete ideas for PODs but I'm interested in responses.

I would say that the (somewhat weak) resurgence of disco had a lot to due with the post-disco sound that survived the death of disco, and developed a lot during that time. If somehow a more pure punk sound lasts longer, delaying the broad introduction of synths, disco could be dead longer...

One POD, though suffering somewhat of a great person fallacy, is to somehow kill off "I Feel Love" and Giorgio Moroder's production style would be less known delaying it somewhat. It is a 1977 POD though.

marathag · Mar 16, 2015

Disco still sucked thruout the Reagan administration.

Now I for one, don't conflate Soul and Disco(or early hip hop,either)

If Afrika Bambaataa could hate on Disco, so can I

ennobee · Mar 16, 2015

The most obvious idea is to somehow 'kill off' both Michael Jackson and Prince, at least kill off their recording career or postpone it for 5 years by which time the hard rock revolution happened. For Michael Jackson, father Joe Jackson might decide to milk out the 'Jackson Five' for one more album before starting little Michael on a solo career. For Prince, his first music movies could flop due to dismal post-production and distribution by a studio that only halfheartedly believes in the project.

Another possibility, suggested by Kung Zog would be that the early 80's saw another music genre become so popular that Jackson and Prince never would have had the impact they had in real life. I myself was only 16 in '83 but I remember that at that time there was a void in the music scene and everybody was waiting for the next big thing.

So what if there wasn't a void to start with? English Punkrock could have jumped over the ocean (like it did to Germany jn 1982-'83) or Bob Marley could have lived for another 5 years and produced the ultimate reggae revolution... Who knows?

kung Zog · Mar 16, 2015

marathag said:
Disco still sucked thruout the Reagan administration.

Now I for one, don't conflate Soul and Disco(or early hip hop,either)

If Afrika Bambaataa could hate on Disco, so can I

Well, Afrika Bambaataa is wrong.

It is no coincidence that the (possibly) first political hip hop song, How are we gonna make the black nation rise was created from a simple disco sample, Got to be real by Cheryl Lynn.

John Fredrick Parker · Mar 16, 2015

marathag said:
Now I for one, don't conflate Soul and Disco(or early hip hop,either)

I should mention, my inspiration for this thread came from this vid (starts 4:49, history part lasts about a minute). I think, according to Todd, the disco backlash was really against "black music" more generally (so also covered funk, soul, etc). Does this seem like a fair analysis?

ennobee said:
The most obvious idea is to somehow 'kill off' both Michael Jackson and Prince, at least kill off their recording career or postpone it for 5 years by which time the hard rock revolution happened. For Michael Jackson, father Joe Jackson might decide to milk out the 'Jackson Five' for one more album before starting little Michael on a solo career. For Prince, his first music movies could flop due to dismal post-production and distribution by a studio that only halfheartedly believes in the project.

It's also my sense is also that Jackson's Thriller and Prince's 1999 were absolutely key albums to softening the backlash, but I could be wrong. Does this seem right?

Vanity 6 · Mar 16, 2015

New Wave was the bridge back to dance music. it was danceable and (sometimes) incorporated elements of R&B (in the singing any way...see Alison Moyet, ABC). Earlier hair band popularity instead of new wave might head this off. Truth be told, I'd hate to see this. 1983 was a very fun and exciting year in music and what made it interesting was the resurgence of dance music: the Holy Trinity of Madonna, Prince (my name is an homage to his silly protegee) and Michael Jackson along with household saints like the Pointer Sisters and Shannon. All of these incorporated new wave (heavily).

Andrew T · Mar 16, 2015

Disco was back in full force by late '83 OTL; just take a listen to Shannon's "Let the Music Play" (#8 Feb. '84) or, well, anything from Kool & the Gang's In the Heart album -- "Joanna" hit #2 in November of 1983, and "Tonight" charted in early '84. Those are no-doubt-about-it-straight-up disco tunes.

In addition to dance-pop, I've always thought that '80s new wave -- particularly bands like New Order, Joy Division, Alphaville, Yaz, and the like -- were heavily influenced by disco.

Without disco's influence, Howard Jones probably becomes the pioneer of "soft" synthesizer-heavy music. For "hard" synth, I guess you're looking at Van Halen's 5150 as the standard?

Andrew T · Mar 16, 2015

Vanity 6 and I wrote our replies at roughly the same time; so I endorse his/her comments as well

John Fredrick Parker · Mar 16, 2015

Vanity 6 said:
New Wave was the bridge back to dance music. it was danceable and (sometimes) incorporated elements of R&B (in the singing any way...see Alison Moyet, ABC)...the Holy Trinity of Madonna, Prince (my name is an homage to his silly protegee) and Michael Jackson along with household saints like the Pointer Sisters and Shannon. All of these incorporated new wave (heavily).

Andrew T said:
Disco was back in full force by late '83 OTL; just take a listen to Shannon's "Let the Music Play" (#8 Feb. '84) or, well, anything from Kool & the Gang's In the Heart album -- "Joanna" hit #2 in November of 1983, and "Tonight" charted in early '84. Those are no-doubt-about-it-straight-up disco tunes.

I think this roughly charts with my last thought -- that the late 82 albums by Michael Jackson and Prince, and Madonna slightly later, began the general public's love of New Wave, which paved the way for later success in 84 by the Pointer Sisters, Shannon, and Kool and the Gang. If those first two albums are headed off or don't do as well, would that negatively affect the later artists?

Vanity 6 said:
Truth be told, I'd hate to see this. 1983 was a very fun and exciting year in music and what made it interesting was the resurgence of dance music...

Yeah, I'm kind of going for a dystopian feel here

Petike · Mar 17, 2015

Cool POD idea.

Vanity 6 · Mar 17, 2015

Yeah, I'm kind of going for a dystopian feel here

[/QUOTE]

Oh boy have I got a dystopia for you. New 1983 releases from Bertie Higgins ("Key Largo") and Christopher Cross! Adult Contemporary is on the upswing in a world without a resurgent dance music movement.

steve_wilson · Mar 17, 2015

Three little letters - MTV. When it started MTV mainly showed videos by white acts. If more so-called "New Wave" (actually New Romantic) acts had been able to supply videos white music would have continued to dominate - and if Motown and similar decided against promotion by video the re-ghettoisation of American music might have continued.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV#Breaking_the_.22color_barrier.22_.281981.E2.80.9383.29

John Fredrick Parker · Mar 17, 2015

Skimmed a biography of Prince just now; seems he worked himself rugged for several months in 1982 making 1999, and that the album was in large measure rooted in the context of 1982 politics (eg the growing sense that nuclear armageddon was close at hand).

Vanity 6 said:
Oh boy have I got a dystopia for you. New 1983 releases from Bertie Higgins ("Key Largo") and Christopher Cross! Adult Contemporary is on the upswing in a world without a resurgent dance music movement.

I'll have to wait til I get home to give them a listen, but reading them up on Wikipedia, I'd say that sounds like a real plausibility.

steve_wilson said:
Three little letters - MTV. When it started MTV mainly showed videos by white acts. If more so-called "New Wave" (actually New Romantic) acts had been able to supply videos white music would have continued to dominate - and if Motown and similar decided against promotion by video the re-ghettoisation of American music might have continued.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV#Breaking_the_.22color_barrier.22_.281981.E2.80.9383.29

When did we start to see this change OTL?

usertron2020 · Mar 17, 2015

The Bee Gees are sent to the Hague and tried for Crimes Against Humanity

kung Zog · Mar 17, 2015

usertron2020 said:
The Bee Gees are sent to the Hague and tried for Crimes Against Humanity

Haha, oh no, they are wonderfully good on occasion. Staying alive is a damn good song!

kung Zog · Mar 17, 2015

John Fredrick Parker said:
They are however able to avoid the death penalty, and so are AH AH AH AH STAYIN ALIVE, STAYIN ALIVE!

Touché!

edit: Now I want to watch Saturday Night Fever. Damn good movie!

riggerrob · Mar 17, 2015

kung Zog said:
Haha, oh no, they are wonderfully good on occasion. Staying alive is a damn good song!

..............................................................................................

Especially when you are suffering a heart attack!
Hah!
Hah!

John Fredrick Parker · Mar 17, 2015

Vanity 6 said:
Oh boy have I got a dystopia for you. New 1983 releases from Bertie Higgins ("Key Largo") and Christopher Cross! Adult Contemporary is on the upswing in a world without a resurgent dance music movement.

OK, took a listen to "Key Largo" and "Think of Laura" -- snooze.

usertron2020 · Mar 18, 2015

The backlash against disco was really the anger of Baby Boomers against post-Boomers (babies of WWII babies and early Gen-Xers) who had the unmitigated gall to have a form of music to call their own.

They should have had the common decency to stick with acid rock, mellow rock, rock-a-billy, and then at the very least wait for New Wave.

Just look at the people celebrating the bonfires of so many disco albums in the late 1970s. Notice in the crowds the complete lack of teenagers?