Softest and hardest Versailles peace?

ThePest179 · Mar 11, 2015

With World War 1 going as it did in OTL, what's the softest and harshest possible peace the Entente can inflict on Germany?

JudgeKing · Mar 11, 2015

I'm pretty sure that this would be the harshest Versailles peace.

The Sandman said:
Certain elements of the OTL treaty (the colonies, Alsace-Lorraine, Eupen-Malmedy, disposal of the High Seas Fleet) are to be retained.

Break the southern German states off and unify them with Austria.

Give Silesia to Czechoslovakia, give both West and East Prussia to Poland (make the Poles give the Lithuanians Vilnius to slightly offset this).

Give the Danes the entirety of Schleswig.

Give the Dutch something too; East Frisia, perhaps.

Give the Saar to Luxembourg, along with any territory necessary to make it contiguous with the prewar Grand Duchy.

Occupy the Rhineland for long enough to dismantle a significant portion of its industry and ship it back to France and Belgium.

Heligoland goes to Britain.

Transfer of all German patents, as well as the German gold reserves.

British, French and American corporations granted majority shares in a wide range of German industrial concerns, particularly those which might produce anything that can be put to military use. This is set up so that each involved Entente corporation is given control of a set of companies, not so that the majority stake in each German company is divided among multiple corporations. Forbid any sale of shares in any of these companies to German investors for at least twenty or thirty years, except where such shares are explicitly stated to grant no voting rights whatsoever within the corporation.

Ban the Germans from establishing tariffs of any kind, except on such goods as the Entente nations might prefer to be able to purchase more cheaply from Germany.

The Germans are to put some number of their infantry divisions at the disposal of the Entente powers. These divisions will be used up as part of the intervention in the Russian Civil War. They will also be required to supply a certain number of divisions for the use of the League of Nations, each of which will be quartered outside of Germany for the duration of its service.

The German soldiers seconded to the League of Nations will be required to purchase all of their own equipment within Germany, in quantities and at prices to be set by Entente quartermasters. German armaments manufacturers will be required to provide said quantities at said prices.

In short (or not, I suppose), give every one of Germany's neighbors a stake in containing and suppressing it, cripple their economy in such a fashion as to make them little more than an exploitable appendage of the Entente, and send as much of their military as possible to die in Russia and any other place that the Big Three don't want to expend their own lives on.

If the Germans refuse these terms, continue the blockade until either they surrender or they completely disintegrate, whichever comes first.

Ameise · Mar 11, 2015

JudgeKing said:
I'm pretty sure that this would be the harshest Versailles peace.

Well, that peace "offer" would certainly guarantee that the war continues until either Germany is completely occupied or the Allies can stomach no more war.

I suspect the US would drop out, too.

Monter · Mar 11, 2015

By hardest you mean "bordering impossible"?

EDIT: Errr... above's "treaty" is completely impossible unless France try to enforce it herself (Britain and especially the US aren't going to back it).

Ameise · Mar 11, 2015

Monter said:
By hardest you mean "bordering impossible"?

EDIT: Errr... above's "treaty" is completely impossible unless France try to enforce it herself (Britain and especially the US aren't going to back it).

If France tries to impose that herself, have a suspicion that at the very least the US will drop out, and possibly even the UK may make a separate peace.

That would put France into a "not good" position.

Bad@logic · Mar 11, 2015

Ameise said:
If France tries to impose that herself, have a suspicion that at the very least the US will drop out, and possibly even the UK may make a separate peace.

That would put France into a "not good" position.

Given France's negotiating position at Versailles, it wouldn't want or care for such a peace either, so if magically that was now the Allied war aims nobody would be fighting in Europe anymore.

Sabot Cat · Mar 11, 2015

Harshest peace settlement, as envisioned by Action française.

Admiral Halsey · Mar 11, 2015

Does that map show Switzerland gaining some land? Why the hell would the Swiss get any land!? They weren't even fighting!

Ameise · Mar 11, 2015

Admiral Halsey said:
Does that map show Switzerland gaining some land? Why the hell would the Swiss get any land!?

Late entry into the war with halberdiers.

Monadologie · Mar 11, 2015

Ameise said:
Late entry into the war with halberdiers.

But would the Swiss even want the land? Non-integrated population, and harder to defend.

Bad@logic · Mar 11, 2015

Admiral Halsey said:
Does that map show Switzerland gaining some land? Why the hell would the Swiss get any land!? They weren't even fighting!

Denmark got land, even in our world, and they weren't fighting either. Better to have a weak Switzerland taking new land and making a nice buffer state than the land being part of a rival Great Power or nation unfriendly to France.

Important to remember of course that this is by Action Francaise so it is the equivalent of the Libertarians/Communists proposing American foreign policy in the US, and isn't an established view of the majority of the population.

BeardedHoplite · Mar 11, 2015

I'd imagine the softest peace would involve Germany losing Alsace-Lorraine and her colonies. Perhaps paying an indemnity, but that's it. No republic being created and 1914 borders in the east. Might make the future better.

Sabot Cat · Mar 11, 2015

Bad@logic said:
Denmark got land, even in our world, and they weren't fighting either. Better to have a weak Switzerland taking new land and making a nice buffer state than the land being part of a rival Great Power or nation unfriendly to France.

Important to remember of course that this is by Action Francaise so it is the equivalent of the Libertarians/Communists proposing American foreign policy in the US, and isn't an established view of the majority of the population.

Indeed. It's just the worst case scenario for Germany, which I believe OP was after.

ThePest179 · Mar 11, 2015

Sabot Cat said:
Indeed. It's just the worst case scenario for Germany, which I believe OP was after.

Yes, but I'd like it to be plausible.

Remitonov · Mar 11, 2015

Sabot Cat said:
Harshest peace settlement, as envisioned by Action française.

Why on earth would they think that making Russia bigger than it was even in Soviet times was a good idea.

Admiral Halsey · Mar 11, 2015

Remitonov said:
Why on earth would they think that making Russia bigger than it was even in Soviet times was a good idea.

Look at the date on the map. Its the plans in for a 1915 victory.

Sabot Cat · Mar 11, 2015

Original map:

Halagaz · Mar 11, 2015

Is that the same thing as this map? They have a similar origin and seem to be almost identical, but there are a few differences... (bigger Prussia, no Bulgarian Thrace etc)

Remitonov · Mar 11, 2015

Admiral Halsey said:
Look at the date on the map. Its the plans in for a 1915 victory.

Sabot Cat said:
Original map:

Ah, ok. I'm guessing they were banking on Russia's manpower then to flatten the CPs early in the East?

Sabot Cat · Mar 11, 2015

Remitonov said:
Ah, ok. I'm guessing they were banking on Russia's manpower then to flatten the CPs early in the East?

That's my guess, yes.