Elephant APCs

MrP

MrP

Banned
As part of an entirely different discussion, Khib Yusa and I wandered onto the topic of Elephant chariots for the Carthaginians. The essential idea is this:

A chariot is borne along behind an elephant, bearing 10-20 psychotics (you'd have to be mad/drunk to do this). Once the elephants breach the enemy lines, they release these loons who disrupt the enemy battle line until the main army arrives to engage it.

I think it's not so practical, but we've decided to ask you chaps for your opinion.
 

Flocculencio

Donor
Bit unpredictable as a weapon though, as with any elephant-based unit.

Besides that, would 10-20 men really do that much more damage to a line than the unencumbered elephant would on it's own?
 

Gladi

Flocculencio said:
Bit unpredictable as a weapon though, as with any elephant-based unit.

Besides that, would 10-20 men really do that much more damage to a line than the unencumbered elephant would on it's own?
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Bright day
Wasn`t countertactic of the day aganist elephants some breaking of the line? In such scenario men would not be there to disrupt the line but disallow it from being reformed.
 

Dave Howery

by Hannibal's time, elephants were on the way out. They were too easy to panic. Javelins aimed at eyes and ears tended to stampede them. Something as simple as caltrops would stop them... elephants have surprisingly tender feet. Also, the mahouts were hideously exposed to counter arrow fire. This APC tactic would only work once... then everyone would just toss some caltrops in front of their lines...
 

Flocculencio

Donor
Gladi said:
In such scenario men would not be there to disrupt the line but disallow it from being reformed.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the number of men being pulled by the elephants (in our discussion earlier today, Mr. P and I were working with the ratio of 15 men per cart per elephant) would probably not be enough to properly prevent the line reforming any more than rampaging unencumbered elephants already would.

Basically this means you're sending a bunch of men into a position where they won't really have any chance to do anything that the elephants can't do.

Without the men, the elephants will manage to scatter the enemy and prevent the line reforming or will be scattered themselves due to elephant unpredictability. With the men the same thing will happen- if the elephants manage to scatter the enemy, the line will remain broken but if the elephants are stopped, the men they've been carrying into battle won't be enough to make a difference.

I suggested that it might be workable if a commander sent in battle wagons pulled by oxen to directly follow the elephant charge but such a force wouldn't be flexible enough to do much good.
 

Gladi

Flocculencio- there seems to be bit of misunderstanding somewhere. I spoke of what AFAIU it was roman practice of breaking into smaller squads and allowing elephants pass through.
 
MrP

MrP

Banned
They did divide into channels for the elephants to pass through the gaps between units. But these smaller units are still far far bigger than the number of men y'could carry per elephant.
 
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