Pres Grant annexes Santo Domingo 1869

[Melvin Loh]

I just read in an ACW book that Pres Grant intended to annex Santo Domingo in 1869, altho this eventually didn't eventuate due largely to white Southern interests which had no desire to increase America's nonwhite population. How would the hist of the US have changed tho had this annexation actually occurred ? A US state within the Carribean actually occurring eventually a la Hawaii and Alaska ? Hmmm, wonder why this snippet wasn't mentioned in previous threads acssociated with a hypothetical larger US.

[Derek Jackson]

There was also some kind of revolt- rather brutally put down- in Jamaica. If the US goverment were more sympathetic to former slaves I wonder whether there was any chance of some attempt being made to try to take Jamaica off Britain's hands.

I know Britain was then the Hyper Power but I suspect that the Carribean islands were likely to have been an embarassment.

In the context of the times black majority states would have been guaranteed Republican votes in both Houses of Congress and the electoral college.

[Admiral Matt]

This could be really interesting. Do you know anything more about it?

[Sean Swaby]

[QUOTE=Derek Jackson]There was also some kind of revolt- rather brutally put down- in Jamaica. If the US goverment were more sympathetic to former slaves I wonder whether there was any chance of some attempt being made to try to take Jamaica off Britain's hands.

I know Britain was then the Hyper Power but I suspect that the Carribean islands were likely to have been an embarassment.

In the context of the times black majority states would have been guaranteed Republican votes in both Houses of Congress and the electoral college [QUOTE]

The revolt in question happened in 1865, so the whole event is off the mark by 4 years. Secondly US marines apparently were sent ashore in Kingston during...I dunno, must have been 1913 (but I know it was a LONG time ago and was the only time American soldiers ever really landed in Jamaica) and they were ordered out by the Governor in no uncertain terms. I rather doubt the Americans will attempt to take Jamaica.

Britain's Caribbean possessions were never an embarassment. If they were then they wouldn't have been among the last to receive independence. Jamaica decided to go it alone in 1962 (I personally believe that was a wrong decision and I think our first PM was a bit fishy in his real motives....The West Indies Federation should have continued I say), Trinidad in 1962, Barbados in 1966 and most of the eastern Caribbean (which were not as important as Jamaica in terms of naval facilities) in the 1970s and 1980s. Heck the Bahamas are only one year older than I am as an independent nation becoming so in 1983. Jamaica itself provided Britain with the naval base/coaling station of Port Royal which was still important during the days of Empire.

It seems funny to me that Jamaica is mentioned as a possible area for American expansion in the 1800s but as far as the Americans were concerned the British, French and Dutch West Indies might as well have been on the other side of the world. The only region that America has ever really shown interest in for expansion has been recently independent (and relatively weak) former Spanish colonies such as Santo Domingo, Nicaragua and in relatively weakly held Spanish colonies (Cuba and Puerto Rico) in a weak Spanish Empire. In fact American expansion has been rather opportunist if you take a good look on it. They never expanded into tightly held or distinctly British or French territory such as Canada, Jamaica, Bahamas (which were right next door) or St. Dominque (before 1791) or Guadeloupe in a hostile manner and the only hostile takeovers have been against Mexico and that was not a fair fight in any universe.
I think the only plausible way to have Jamaica fly the Stars and Stripes is shortly after 1962 when our first PM (the fishy one yeah) apparently offered Jamaica to the United States (which declined).

[Admiral Matt]

"From 1868 to 1873 Bez was once again in office, and during this term overtures were made to the United States with a view to annexation. General 0. E. Babcock was despatched by President Grant to report on the condition and resources of Santo Domingo, and while there, in 1869, he negotiated a treaty, by which the republic was to become part of the United States. Although ratified by the Dominican Senate, this treaty was opposed in the United States Senate, under the leadership of Charles Sumner, and was finally rejected. In 1871 three commissioners were appointed by President Grant to report further, but although their report was favorable to annexation, no action was taken."

Not a big surprise there. Whatever a given president might consider, Congress is still Congress. I'll look around a bit to see how close the vote was.

[Admiral Matt]

It looks really sketchy. The President who offered this was one of the very many Santo Domingo had had in the 25 years since independence from Haiti. His rule was mostly based on force, though naturally the average person preferred a strongman to civil war. There had been no public discussion in Santo Domingo on the subject. Indeed, mail and newspapers from the US were deliberately stopped by the government to keep the Dominicanos in the dark and the US Congress knew it.

The worst part is that almost exactly the same offer had been made to Spain in 1861, though that time there was slightly more support in the general population. The Spanish had accepted and then botched things badly. They imposed high taxes, set up a high-handed occupation, and were planning to reintroduce slavery (!). After a four year civil war, they were driven off the island for the third and final time.

All in all, this appears to be a no-go. We would definately need some kind of earlier POD. Having Sumner killed by his beating on the Senate floor might be a start, but I think you would need more.