I was re-watching my Alien Trilogy box-set, and I decided to watch the behind the scenes stuff for behind Alien 3. I never realised that they nearly didn't go with William Gibson as the writer. OK, I know that it was a kind of polarising film (I liked the Cold-War-in-Space backstory, but I can see why some didn't), but what do you reckon we'd have got if they hadn't used Gibson's script? And what would that have meant for sci-fi more generally?
DBWI - If William Gibson hadn't written Alien 3
- Thread starter theg*ddam*hoi2fan
- Start date
True. Sci-fi of the 90s did kind of end up dominated by that aesthetic, didn't it...
Who knows, this might have butterflied Michael Biehn's acting career. This movie did feature him more than the last one - he's kind of the deuteragonist. Of course, Gibson's first draft didn't include Sigourney Weaver's character at all, since they thought she wasn't going to be there.
Anyways, one potential butterfly could be Biehn not being cast in Star Wars Episode I: Journal of the Whills. Now that would be a huge change.
Anyways, one potential butterfly could be Biehn not being cast in Star Wars Episode I: Journal of the Whills. Now that would be a huge change.
Never thought of that... Boy, that'd be a different world, pop-culture wise...OOC: That's an awesome contribution. Also, you've managed to teach me something - didn't know what a deuteragonist was before now
OOC: That's an awesome contribution. Also, you've managed to teach me something - didn't know what a deuteragonist was before now
OOC: thanks! I think he kinda looks like a young Emperor, but I left it open for debate. I was torn between Star Wars or him being Batman after Keaton but decided he could be better used. IMO tombstone probably goes ahead. Now for Sigourney weaver butterflies!
I like the film as it is, but I have to admit it's not aged well. The "Cold War in space" motif would have worked far better if the Soviet Union hadn't fallen apart almost immediately after the film came out. I remember the transformation sequences scaring the hell out of me as a kid, but the action sequences aren't anything to write home about: they were never going to do those better than Cameron did.
I think it was a missed opportunity to take the series back to its roots, to be honest. Can you imagine how much better it would have been if it had ditched all the Colonial Marines stuff, focused on Ripley as a character, and had only one alien- and no weapons?
OOC: I've read Gibson's first script, but apparently there's a second draft from January 1988 floating round- I'd very much appreciate a copy of that if anybody has it to hand.
I think it was a missed opportunity to take the series back to its roots, to be honest. Can you imagine how much better it would have been if it had ditched all the Colonial Marines stuff, focused on Ripley as a character, and had only one alien- and no weapons?
OOC: I've read Gibson's first script, but apparently there's a second draft from January 1988 floating round- I'd very much appreciate a copy of that if anybody has it to hand.
Good point. A lot of sci-fi from that era ends up suffering from the post-Cold War Curse, doesn't it? At least Alien 3 didn't directly name the USSR, unlike so much other stuff... I get your point about bringing it back to its roots, too, but at the same time I liked seeing more hints about the universe beyond the main characters. It gave a sense of stakes - a reason why the xenomorphs had to be contained, because there is something to be protected from them.
OOC: I'd definitely be interested in that too - I didn't know there'd been two drafts.
OOC: He does a bit, doesn't he? And Star Wars is definitely a good fit, even if he didn't.
To quote a guy in my old creative writing group: GIVE ME BUTTERFLIES!
(It was what he came up with from a writing prompt)Some other potential butterflies:
~ If the alt-Alien 3 doesn't give as much closure, maybe Fox would want to continue the series? The would butterfly away 1997's Alien vs. Predator. Maybe if there was an Alien sequel Sigourney or Biehn would agree to return?
~ Carrie Henn: She got out of the acting career after a few movies in the 1990s. Maybe a stalled Alien 3 production (or one that somehow didn't involve her character) would lead her to leaving acting earlier? This means they would need a different Jenny Curan in Forest Gump.
~ And how can we forget Sigourney Weaver herself? She's such a versatile actor, who knows what different path this could have led her on!
~ If the alt-Alien 3 doesn't give as much closure, maybe Fox would want to continue the series? The would butterfly away 1997's Alien vs. Predator. Maybe if there was an Alien sequel Sigourney or Biehn would agree to return?
~ Carrie Henn: She got out of the acting career after a few movies in the 1990s. Maybe a stalled Alien 3 production (or one that somehow didn't involve her character) would lead her to leaving acting earlier? This means they would need a different Jenny Curan in Forest Gump.
~ And how can we forget Sigourney Weaver herself? She's such a versatile actor, who knows what different path this could have led her on!
OOC: It's frustrating, because I've found several dead links to the second draft that no amount of archives and caches can resuscitate. There's a synopsis of both scripts here.
Hmmmm... An Alien vs Predator movie had kind of been on the cards since Predator 2 had that Alien skull appear in the Predator ship. OTOH, you could be right about the potential fourth Alien film... Thank God for William Gibson in that case! Without the decisive closure there, we might have had Alien become an interstellar Friday 13th...
That's a really interesting one. What did you think of her in that movie?
~ And how can we forget Sigourney Weaver herself? She's such a versatile actor, who knows what different path this could have led her on!
For sure... Actually, that ties into Gibson's impact on 90s films in general. Without Alien 3 bringing the cyberpunk aesthetic front-and-centre, we probably wouldn't have had Batman Unleashed being released as it was in 1995. I mean, let's be honest - the aesthetic was purest cyberpunk, even if it was meant to be a contemporary setting. And without Batman Unleashed...no Sigourney Weaver playing Batwoman.
Speaking of superheroes, I heard the reason that the Watchmen movie was set in modern times was because of the Cold War becoming overused thanks to this film. They tried to explicitly remove any cyberpunk inclinations, as to distance itself from Batman Unleased and other films inspired by Alien 3
I remember my parents telling me that they were so surprised that she got involved in that movie. But I gotta say, she pulled off a (implied) Lesbian Jew Marine quite well.
True, but Watchmen was in development hell since the late 80s. Whose to say, given the butterflies, that it would even be developed at all ITTL? Though that might be a good thing - we wouldn't have to deal with Arnold Schwarzneggar's hammy Ozymandias. I heard that Tim Burton originally considered him for a part in what became Batman Unleashed. Who do you think he would play?
OOC: The Superhero Boom happens ten years early?
And without Sigourney Weaver's Batwoman (that was the emsenble darkhorse of the movie) we would not have a major acceptance of female action heroes that lead to Lucy Lawless as an surprising believeble Samus Aran in the "Metroid" Trilogy or Rinko Kikuchi as Major Motoko Kusanagi for the Ghost in the Shell live action movie...
Makes sense. Even things that work well in certain films (because it did fit Alien 3) can get bloody tiresome after a while.
I remember my parents telling me that they were so surprised that she got involved in that movie. But I gotta say, she pulled off a (implied) Lesbian Jew Marine quite well.
True. It was a surprise, but after the Alien Trilogy everyone who was doing anything nerd-culture related wanted her in their production. Heck, look at all the ones she turned down... And the implied lesbianism was handled tastefully, for a 90s movie (one friend of mine said seeing that film really made her feel good about coming out, even if it was so implied that it passed by the moral guardians for quite a while)...and let's be fair, the main focus was on her kicking ass and bailing the Dark Knight out more than once.
What the hell were they smoking when they let Big Arnie near Watchmen? I'm still scarred by his 'I haff become de ting I fought, so dat I could be de ultimate hero' line... For what he might play in Batman... Bane, I'd say. It's the only one I can think of that would fit...
Watchmen...well, given what a nightmare it was production-wise, I'd say even the tiniest of butterflies could stop it getting made.
OOC: Kind of. I figured that one film that the cyberpunk aesthetic would fit beautifully would be a Batman movie, and that WB might accept that as a guaranteed money-maker - since ITTL Gibsonesque stuff spreads outwards from Alien 3 across the 90s - rather than going with the campy Schumacher stuff. And because it actually fits decently, and gets OK returns, it gives superhero movies kind of a shot in the arm. Maybe not quite the boom yet, but superhero movies are definitely bigger and more accepted than they were at the same time OTL (well, that's my general thoughts - since this is a DBWI, it's all up to you guys
). Weaver as Batwoman, I figured that she'd have been getting sci-fi offers from all over the shop and while she'd probably try to turn most down to avoid typecasting, she might go with a couple... And a decently-written female superhero could get her attention. Also, please please please don't think that the 'what were they smoking' was an in-character gibe at your AHNOLD Ozymandias - it's an awesome idea, and it's just the kind of thing that someone might have done... I was just giving what would, IRL, have been my reaction if Snyder or whoever else might have directed Watchmen brought anyone like Arnie along for the ride. Also, I'm not knocking German-speakers' English pronunciation...just AHNOLD's
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Also, please please please don't think that the 'what were they smoking' was an in-character gibe at your AHNOLD Ozymandias - it's an awesome idea, and it's just the kind of thing that someone might have done... I was just giving what would, IRL, have been my reaction if Snyder or whoever else might have directed Watchmen brought anyone like Arnie along for the ride. Also, I'm not knocking German-speakers' English pronunciation...just AHNOLD's
OOC: He was actually considered for the role of Dr. Manhattan. Yeah, Ozymandias sounds like a better choice by comparison.
OOC: I based it off of this wiki page which says "Silver wanted to cast Jeff Bridges as Dr. Manhattan. Tom Hanks, Sean Young, and Arnold Schwarzenegger–[4]known for his portrayals in The Terminator and The Running Man—were each in talks for Nite Owl II, Silk Spectre II and Ozymandias. Silver also wanted Michael Keaton as Rorschach and Rutger Hauer as the Comedian." Same page also says Gilliam thought about making Watchmen a five hour mini-series. Although I couldn't see these big names signing on for something that big.
Going back to Science Fiction, the backlash against cyberpunk eventually resulted in nostalgic space opera and science fiction being produced in its wake in the early 2000's. Take Alien 3 out, and possibly only the Star Wars prequels would likely still exist. (Though that would spare us the 2001: A Space Odyssey remake.)
OOC: Because I thought, why not?
OOC: Because I thought, why not?
I don't know, I think the backlash and return to space opera actually assisted Star Wars - both in the box office and in development. The family drama in the Original Trilogy was very opera-y, and I gotta say that I never saw Biehn as the future Emperor twist coming at all. And this may have a lot to due with his "hero" image established by Terminator 1, Aliens, Alien 3, and his other movies.