WI: Meade dies at Gettysburg.

Admiral Halsey

Banned
So let's say that during Pickets Charge a lucky shot from a Confederate soldier strikes Meade and kills him. Who would replace him as commander of the AotP? Does Grant get the job almost a year early or does someone else get it? How would this effect the rest of the war and when does it end now?
 
EnglishCanuck

EnglishCanuck

Admiral Halsey said:
Really? Care to explain?
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Well as far as my understanding goes the AotP had been fairly demoralized by Lees attack and it's change of commanders. The sheer press of Confederate forces was unnerving the Union troops and it was only with Meade making a stand that prevented at best an orderly withdrawal. His sudden death probably shatters Union morale.
 
Donald Reaver

Donald Reaver

Donor
Meade was far enough behind the lines that the news of a random shot killing him would not reach the troops in time to change the attack. It was pretty much broken by the time some of the troops made it to the Union lines.
 

dmg86

Actually most of the remaining corps commanders were not very aggressive so it is likely things would not change too much in the short term at least.
 

TRH

Hm. Hancock's corp was the one that took on Pickett's Charge. Any chance he'd get command afterwards on account of a good performance?
 

Admiral Halsey

Banned
TRH said:
Hm. Hancock's corp was the one that took on Pickett's Charge. Any chance he'd get command afterwards on account of a good performance?
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I doubt it. Hancock was seriously wounded during the charge and IIRC was lucky to survive from it.
 

dmg86

Hancock was also the junior corps commander by date of rank it would be Slocum of the 12th corps.
 

Darth_Kiryan

EnglishCanuck said:
Well as far as my understanding goes the AotP had been fairly demoralized by Lees attack and it's change of commanders. The sheer press of Confederate forces was unnerving the Union troops and it was only with Meade making a stand that prevented at best an orderly withdrawal. His sudden death probably shatters Union morale.
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I dunno. The guys holding the ridge were Hancock's men. They were a determined bunch. Plus, the interior lines of communication and the fact that they could bring up enough troops to counter any insertion of Pickett's men.

I mean, the night before he had a Staff meeting of all senior commanders, and it was his commanders who encouraged Meade to make a stand. They were determined to stand their ground. I really do not know if Meade's death was entirely that crucial to the AOTP TBH.
 

Admiral Halsey

Banned
Darth_Kiryan said:
I dunno. The guys holding the ridge were Hancock's men. They were a determined bunch. Plus, the interior lines of communication and the fact that they could bring up enough troops to counter any insertion of Pickett's men.

I mean, the night before he had a Staff meeting of all senior commanders, and it was his commanders who encouraged Meade to make a stand. They were determined to stand their ground. I really do not know if Meade's death was entirely that crucial to the AOTP TBH.
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Yeah Pickett's charge was doomed to fail honestly. The Union guns and Soldiers had a clear view of it and could basically pick and choose who to shoot.
 

Darth_Kiryan

The next guy in direct command after Meade was Sedgewick, i think. ANd he was passed over in favor of meade.

I think Longstreet sums it up nicely in the Gettysburg movie when he is arguing with Lee about the charge.

Part 1

Part 2
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
While the Gettysburg Campaign itself would turn out more or less as it did IOTL (none of the corps commanders would be any more aggressive in pursuit of Lee than Meade was), the butterflies would be pretty big. One thing is for sure, though, and that is that Meade will become the great Union martyr of the war.
 

Deleted member 9338

What if Sickles had not been shot. He was aggressive and senior, I believe.
 

Darth_Kiryan

jony663 said:
What if Sickles had not been shot. He was aggressive and senior, I believe.
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Sedgwick is senior by about three months.

And even besides that, i would say that Sickles is aggressive for glory, and would only get the position because of politics. Even the politicians in Washington were not stupid enough to completely upset the West Pointers, especially for Sickles who is a Democrat to boot. .
 
TheKnightIrish

TheKnightIrish

The best corps commanders have been wiped out by Gettysburg - Reynolds is dead, Hancock is badly injured and now you have added Meade to the mix. Hooker and McClellan are politically impossible. Sickles would be a horrendous choice even if he wasn't injured.

Sedgwick, Slocum, Sykes and Howard are all singularly unimpressive. Warren might be ok in a commanding position and he was at the peak of his reputation at Gettysburg. But Warren would not work well with Grant when the time came. Humphrey is pugnacious if nothing else.
 

Darth_Kiryan

TheKnightIrish said:
The best corps commanders have been wiped out by Gettysburg - Reynolds is dead, Hancock is badly injured and now you have added Meade to the mix. Hooker and McClellan are politically impossible. Sickles would be a horrendous choice even if he wasn't injured.

Sedgwick, Slocum, Sykes and Howard are all singularly unimpressive. Warren might be ok in a commanding position and he was at the peak of his reputation at Gettysburg. But Warren would not work well with Grant when the time came. Humphrey is pugnacious if nothing else.
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Obviously Fremont is the only choice.:rolleyes:
 

Admiral Halsey

Banned
TheKnightIrish said:
The best corps commanders have been wiped out by Gettysburg - Reynolds is dead, Hancock is badly injured and now you have added Meade to the mix. Hooker and McClellan are politically impossible. Sickles would be a horrendous choice even if he wasn't injured.

Sedgwick, Slocum, Sykes and Howard are all singularly unimpressive. Warren might be ok in a commanding position and he was at the peak of his reputation at Gettysburg. But Warren would not work well with Grant when the time came. Humphrey is pugnacious if nothing else.
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Yeah McClellan isn't getting anywhere near the army and Hooker hasn't had his redemption at Lookout Mountain yet. Also you're right that with this WI the best commanders in the AotP at the time have just been wiped out. That's kinda why I asked if this means Grant would take over early in the OP. He'll have taken Vicksburg the very next day and with no real decent candidate in the east he'd be close to the top of the new commander list.
 

Darth_Kiryan

Admiral Halsey said:
Yeah McClellan isn't getting anywhere near the army and Hooker hasn't had his redemption at Lookout Mountain yet. Also you're right that with this WI the best commanders in the AotP at the time have just been wiped out. That's kinda why I asked if this means Grant would take over early in the OP. He'll have taken Vicksburg the very next day and with no real decent candidate in the east he'd be close to the top of the new commander list.
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If Grant does go East after vicksburg, who replaces him in the West. Although we would all like it to be Sherman, I'll be honest when i think the seniority was Rosecrans.

I know the general feeling was that the army wanted McClellan back, but politics is going to keep him away.
 

Admiral Halsey

Banned
Darth_Kiryan said:
If Grant does go East after vicksburg, who replaces him in the West. Although we would all like it to be Sherman, I'll be honest when i think the seniority was Rosecrans.

I know the general feeling was that the army wanted McClellan back, but politics is going to keep him away.
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Maybe Hooker? Course Grant might keep him out east though. Also if Grant does come east would he after getting his bearings start a campaign to at least be in Virginia before winter falls?
 
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