AHC: European Israel

Vexacus

Banned
The alternate history challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to have Israel established in Europe, not the Middle East.
 
Well if it's after WWII then I assume that some part of Germany would be taken, 'depopulated' of Germans and offered up as a 'Neo-Israel' (or something like that.

It could be Prussia, Saar, or Bavaria.

If you want a POD before WWII then the Russian Empire could, for whatever reason, take a bit of territory it had taken over and offer it up for Jewish settlement, that could evolve into a Jewish state.

But if you push it back farther, the Khazars (converts to Judaism) could push further into Europe and create a Jewish kingdom in what we know as western Ukraine.
 

Vexacus

Banned
Well if it's after WWII then I assume that some part of Germany would be taken, 'depopulated' of Germans and offered up as a 'Neo-Israel' (or something like that.

It could be Prussia, Saar, or Bavaria.

If you want a POD before WWII then the Russian Empire could, for whatever reason, take a bit of territory it had taken over and offer it up for Jewish settlement, that could evolve into a Jewish state.

But if you push it back farther, the Khazars (converts to Judaism) could push further into Europe and create a Jewish kingdom in what we know as western Ukraine.
The idea of Israel in part of Germany is a great idea, very inventive
 
The idea of Israel in part of Germany is a great idea, very inventive

With zero chance of being accepted by the Jews. They knew perfectly well where Israel was and there is no chance they would risk being in middle of what might well have turned into a bunch of hostile German states near by ready to start Holocaust two, or at the very least that is how it would have looked to the Jews post WWII.
 
Personally I think there are three different possibilities to create a modern Jewish state in Europe.

First of all in case you have a Eastern European Federation-thingy, like a Soviet Union which successfully conquers Poland in the 1920s, then creating an autonomous Jewish region(s) within the so-called Jewish Pale is a possibility. Multiple cities in today's Lithuania and Belarus, most notably Gomel/Homel in modern Belarus used to be a very Jewish city. In the TL A Shift in Priorities a similar idea is used, with a fully sovereign Zionist state being established right between Russia and Poland.

The second possibility is East Prussia, which universally was seen as unnecessary for the post-WW2 German state(s), so giving it to the Zionists is an interesting twist compared to giving it to either the Soviets and/or Poland. The fact that East Prussia has sea access and is rather good land helps, too.

Last but not least we'd have Crimea as an option. IIRC the Soviets planned to create an autonomous Jewish SRR there but Stalin's paranoia led to OTL's Jewish Autonomous Oblast's creations in the Russian Far East. Just have Stalin die earlier, ideally shortly before the end of WW2 and it could've been possible.
 
Personally I think there are three different possibilities to create a modern Jewish state in Europe.

First of all in case you have a Eastern European Federation-thingy, like a Soviet Union which successfully conquers Poland in the 1920s, then creating an autonomous Jewish region(s) within the so-called Jewish Pale is a possibility. Multiple cities in today's Lithuania and Belarus, most notably Gomel/Homel in modern Belarus used to be a very Jewish city. In the TL A Shift in Priorities a similar idea is used, with a fully sovereign Zionist state being established right between Russia and Poland.

The second possibility is East Prussia, which universally was seen as unnecessary for the post-WW2 German state(s), so giving it to the Zionists is an interesting twist compared to giving it to either the Soviets and/or Poland. The fact that East Prussia has sea access and is rather good land helps, too.

Last but not least we'd have Crimea as an option. IIRC the Soviets planned to create an autonomous Jewish SRR there but Stalin's paranoia led to OTL's Jewish Autonomous Oblast's creations in the Russian Far East. Just have Stalin die earlier, ideally shortly before the end of WW2 and it could've been possible.

None of those areas are where Jews would have felt safe going to.
 
None of those areas are where Jews would have felt safe going to.

How about a situation where we have a WAllied-wank/Soviet-screw? There was no lend-lease to the USSR, and by the time the A-bombs are being dropped on Germany the Soviets are still fighting behind their pre-1939 borders. This way the WAllies liberate the rest of Europe.

Once the horror of the Holocaust is realized after the WAllies free the surviving Jews from the concentration camps, they decide to force out the Germans from East Prussia, and turn it into a Jewish State, with the guarantee of protection by the USA and a US military base located in their country for the next 99 years.
 
How about a situation where we have a WAllied-wank/Soviet-screw? There was no lend-lease to the USSR, and by the time the A-bombs are being dropped on Germany the Soviets are still fighting behind their pre-1939 borders. This way the WAllies liberate the rest of Europe.

Once the horror of the Holocaust is realized after the WAllies free the surviving Jews from the concentration camps, they decide to force out the Germans from East Prussia, and turn it into a Jewish State, with the guarantee of protection by the USA and a US military base located in their country for the next 99 years.

That would do it.
 
That would do it.

US protection/pledge alone wouldn't be good enough, the USSR would also have to agree to at least consider the Prussian Jewish state to be neutral. Otherwise there would always be the threat of a Russian invasion/communist puppet state.
 
US protection/pledge alone wouldn't be good enough, the USSR would also have to agree to at least consider the Prussian Jewish state to be neutral. Otherwise there would always be the threat of a Russian invasion/communist puppet state.

In order for the USSR to invade this new Jewish State they'd have to pass through Lithuania and Poland ITTL. Remember, we are talking about a weaker USSR that is back to its pre-1939 borders when WWII ends, instead of the USSR from OTL that controlled eastern Europe.
 
The only place there's a large amount of Jews in Europe is in Poland and the USSR, and I just can't see the Jewish people massivly supporting communistic views.The only other place I could see them settling is where Israel is now.
 
OTL East Prussia was proposed but the Zionists didn't want it. The Crimea was slightly more popular, but ultimately sidelined in favor of the Holy Land.
 
US protection/pledge alone wouldn't be good enough, the USSR would also have to agree to at least consider the Prussian Jewish state to be neutral. Otherwise there would always be the threat of a Russian invasion/communist puppet state.

Only if Russia was willing to go to war with the US.
 
Personally I think there are three different possibilities to create a modern Jewish state in Europe...

Last but not least we'd have Crimea as an option. IIRC the Soviets planned to create an autonomous Jewish SRR there but Stalin's paranoia led to OTL's Jewish Autonomous Oblast's creations in the Russian Far East. Just have Stalin die earlier, ideally shortly before the end of WW2 and it could've been possible.

This was never a realistic possibility IMO. It was proposed by some members of the Jewish Antifascist Committee. It is even possible that the original proposal was a deliberate provocation, so that members of the Committee could later be accused of treasonable "Jewish nationalist" designs to separate Crimea form the USSR. See footnote 35 at http://books.google.com/books?id=BuId8fhsFLQC&pg=PA419
 

Vexacus

Banned
Personally I think there are three different possibilities to create a modern Jewish state in Europe.

First of all in case you have a Eastern European Federation-thingy, like a Soviet Union which successfully conquers Poland in the 1920s, then creating an autonomous Jewish region(s) within the so-called Jewish Pale is a possibility. Multiple cities in today's Lithuania and Belarus, most notably Gomel/Homel in modern Belarus used to be a very Jewish city. In the TL A Shift in Priorities a similar idea is used, with a fully sovereign Zionist state being established right between Russia and Poland.

The second possibility is East Prussia, which universally was seen as unnecessary for the post-WW2 German state(s), so giving it to the Zionists is an interesting twist compared to giving it to either the Soviets and/or Poland. The fact that East Prussia has sea access and is rather good land helps, too.

Last but not least we'd have Crimea as an option. IIRC the Soviets planned to create an autonomous Jewish SRR there but Stalin's paranoia led to OTL's Jewish Autonomous Oblast's creations in the Russian Far East. Just have Stalin die earlier, ideally shortly before the end of WW2 and it could've been possible.
Israel established in Crimea would be interesting. It would serve as a buffer between the West and the USSR.
 
I always wanted to bring that up:

http://medinatweimar.org/

;) Relax, its just an satire.

flyer-MW-e1401562561644-300x171.jpg
 
Have Palestine estabilished as a more or less independent state post WWI; this way the Jews will be unable to immigrate there in large numbers and will be forced to take whatever is proposed to them
 
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