WI: The Mikoyan-Gurevich Ye-8 Entered Service

The Mikoyan-Gurevich Ye-8 was a development of the MiG-21, and was originally slated to replace the design in production. The Ye-8 moved the air intake underneath the fuselage, allowing the powerful Sapfir-23 radar and two Vympel R-23 missiles to be equipped. Depending on how closely the Ye-8 followed its MiG-21 design heritage, it may also have been capable of mounting a GSh-23 23mm cannon. Aircraft performance was to be further improved with the addition of canards and the new Tumansky R-21F-300 engine.

After the Tumansky R-21 engine exploded during a test flight, the Ye-8 was canceled in favor of the MiG-23. Additionally, the Sapfir-23 radar system was delayed even on the MiG-23, forcing early aircraft to rely on the RP-21 Sapfir radar.

Assuming that these development problems could have been overcome (with the Sapfir-23 arriving on schedule), how might the Ye-8 have fared in service? Might it have led the United States to peruse a similar improvement program for the Northrop F-5 or otherwise develop a more competitive day fighter for service in the USAF and/or friendly air forces?

Also, to help with visualization, here's a photograph of the Ye-8:

If the Ye-8 succeeded, there's a chance we would never see the Sukhoi Su-15 enter service. And if may accelerate the development of the LWF (Lightweight Fighter) earlier, which could lead to the something almost identical to the YF-17 into service earlier to counter the Soviet fighter based on the Ye-8.

Cute little thing, it looks like a early soviet Eurofighter clone. Two missiles is a lesser armament than the MiG-21 which IIRC can carry 4? And it would need that 23mm cannon.

I wonder about the placement of the intake so low. The Soviets made a big deal about rough field operation and I see that as a major vacuum cleaner. I wouldn't have been surprised if on a production aircraft they found a way to move them up above the wing on the side of the aircraft.

What if it had different wings and a different intake?

A MiG Ye-8 "Analogue" with DSI.

So basically a Soviet F-16XL?

It definitely would be a different direction than the Fulcrum/Flanker. The F-15 is probably butterflied away if this means no Foxbat.

I wonder why it was called Ye-8 rather than MiG-23. Namely, what does the Russian "E" stand for here?

LeX said:

I wonder why it was called Ye-8 rather than MiG-23. Namely, what does the Russian "E" stand for here?

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Ye-8 I believe was the internal designation number for the MiG Bureau, while the format of MiG-number would have been the service designation within the Soviet air force.

The Mig-21 for example was Ye-5 through Ye-7 in internal development.

Chance like snowball in hel

But maybe F-20 Could have come to USAF.

Pretty unlikely, it was a cheap plane meant for the export market. Probably more interest in the LWF program as opposed to heavy air superiority fighters like the Eagle.

Kome said:

Ye-8 I believe was the internal designation number for the MiG Bureau, while the format of MiG-number would have been the service designation within the Soviet air force.

The Mig-21 for example was Ye-5 through Ye-7 in internal development.

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Ah, must be how Sukhoi seems to use "T" for their stuff.

SactoMan101 said:

If the Ye-8 succeeded, there's a chance we would never see the Sukhoi Su-15 enter service. And if may accelerate the development of the LWF (Lightweight Fighter) earlier, which could lead to the something almost identical to the YF-17 into service earlier to counter the Soviet fighter based on the Ye-8.

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The Ye-8 is more of a point defense interceptor/fighter. A longer range aircraft such as the Su-15 would be required to fill in some of the gaps in Soviet air defense coverage.

sharlin said:

Cute little thing, it looks like a early soviet Eurofighter clone. Two missiles is a lesser armament than the MiG-21 which IIRC can carry 4? And it would need that 23mm cannon.

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The MiG-21 didn't gain the outer hard points until the MiG-21R in 1965. The Ye-8 might have been similar had it been developed further.

bsmart said:

I wonder about the placement of the intake so low. The Soviets made a big deal about rough field operation and I see that as a major vacuum cleaner. I wouldn't have been surprised if on a production aircraft they found a way to move them up above the wing on the side of the aircraft.

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There's only a few options for intake location. I think side intakes would have been a good choice for avoiding foreign object damage, as well as clearing up the fuselage underside for pylons.

Scherzo said:

So basically a Soviet F-16XL?

It definitely would be a different direction than the Fulcrum/Flanker. The F-15 is probably butterflied away if this means no Foxbat.

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I think it's closer to a Soviet Northrop F-20 Tigershark. If the MiG-25 is butterflied away the USAF might go a different direction, and depending on butterflies with the USN fighter and fleet interceptor programs the F-14 might never merge into what it became.

There could be interesting developments if the major powers go for day fighter type aircraft alongside or instead of the heavier aircraft.

LeX said:

I wonder why it was called Ye-8 rather than MiG-23. Namely, what does the Russian "E" stand for here?

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That's probably an internal designation, similar to the model designations used by American aerospace companies.

Panica said:

But maybe F-20 Could have come to USAF.

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Something like the Tigershark seems likely.

Well the Eagle (and I think to a certain extent the Raptor) was developed out of overestimation of the MiG-25's capability as a fighter aircraft (It was really an Interceptor). I don't know if the Ye-8 becoming TTL's Flogger would change much about the Foxbat though. At the very least I think it would butterfly away the Fulcrum as a unique airframe, probably would be another revision on the Fishbed.

Scherzo said:

Well the Eagle (and I think to a certain extent the Raptor) was developed out of overestimation of the MiG-25's capability as a fighter aircraft (It was really an Interceptor). I don't know if the Ye-8 becoming TTL's Flogger would change much about the Foxbat though. At the very least I think it would butterfly away the Fulcrum as a unique airframe, probably would be another revision on the Fishbed.

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As an interceptor and recon craft the development of the MiG-25 would be mostly unrelated to the development of the Ye-8 and MiG-23. Like how the F-15 was made to counter the MiG-25 (theoretically), the MiG-25 was developed in counter to American nuclear bombers and high altitude recon/spycraft (which in turn were developed to counter Soviet interceptor developments designed to counter earlier high altitude aircraft and so on). So the reasoning and incentive behind the MiG-25 is still there.

The MiG-23 (and by extension MiG-27) may or may not be butterflied if the Soviet Air Force embraces the light fighter concept whole heartedly with the Ye-8. Though except for the Su-27, Russian fighters were already pretty light when compared to their Western counterparts. And there's a lot of downsides with that. Though of course advantages as well.

The configuration most closely resembles Northrop's N-102 Fang lightweight fighter, which predates the F-5.

MiG also developed a variant from the analog variant of the -21 with lateral intakes, for ground attack, but the -23 was chosen. Guinzhou also developed a variant with -21 wings, for training etc, with lateral intakes. Still for sale.

LeX said:

I wonder why it was called Ye-8 rather than MiG-23. Namely, what does the Russian "E" stand for here?

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That's a really good question. It can't be Experimental, as that uses the other 'e' (e not 'je').
I tried skimming a Russian text on the plane and it didn't SEEM to give any etymology. (By 'skimming', I don't mean reading fast, I mean glancing over the wall of cyrillic text looking for initial 'e' letters.)

There were quite a few other MiG-21 derived aircraft that entered service or were proposed.

The Mikoyan-Gurevich Ye-150 series of aircraft were enlarged MiG-21s, and were intended to use the Tumansky R-15, the same one used on the MiG-25. The Ye-150 prototype achieved a maximum speed of Mach 2.65 and a service ceiling of 68,900 feet (21,000 meters). The final proposed aircraft in the series was the Ye-152P, which would have been equipped with the Urugan 5B fire control system (an automatic ground control intercept system similar to SAGE) and the Raduga K-9 missile. Interestingly, one Ye-152 was modified with canards to produce the Ye-152M. Since the Ye-150 series was designed and flown during the late 1950s and early 1960s the R-15 was even less developed than it would be when the MiG-25 entered service, and the program was canceled, although a twin engine variant flew as the Ye-152A. If SAC had fielded more B-58s or acquired the B-70, the Ye-152 might have entered service to fill the gap until the arrival of the MiG-25.

Here's a photograph of the Ye-152P:



A similar aircraft actually entered service with the PLAAF as the Shenyang J-8, which went through two main variants. The J-8I variant looks quite similar to an enlarged twin engined Chengdu J-7, while the J-8II moves the intakes to the sides, allowing for a modern radar to be equipped.

Here's a photograph of a Shenyang J-8I variant:



Here's a photograph of a Shenyang J-8II variant:



Interesting, the Shenyang J-8 competed against the Chengdu J-9 for the interceptor contract. The J-9 looks quite similar to the Mikoyan-Gurevich Ye-8.

Here's a (presumably computer generated) picture of a Chengdu J-7 and a Chengdu J-9:



The latest development of the MiG-21 series thus far is the Guizhou JL-9, a training and attack aircraft for the PLAAF with side mounted intakes and other improvements. However, the basic airframe is still that of the MiG-21.

Here's a photograph of the Guizhou JL-9:

Just Leo said:

The configuration most closely resembles Northrop's N-102 Fang lightweight fighter, which predates the F-5.

MiG also developed a variant from the analog variant of the -21 with lateral intakes, for ground attack, but the -23 was chosen. Guinzhou also developed a variant with -21 wings, for training etc, with lateral intakes. Still for sale.

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Reminds me of the Hawker P.1121 personally:

LeX said:

Ah, must be how Sukhoi seems to use "T" for their stuff.

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Sukhoi uses "T" for delta, or delta-like, winged prototypes. Swept-winged prototypes get an "S" designation.

None of the Western aircraft quoted had the Ye8 canards. The really inovative aspect of the Ye8 was using two small canards to improve the handling of delta winged fighters.
Apart from that, it would be much easier to fit more advanced radars on it than on the MiG21.