DBWI: Titanic goes down

Whitewings · Aug 21, 2014

Maritime historians know the details; the public at large knows the outlines, how the Titanic struck an iceberg, how her hull was damaged, and the ship more or less limped into port. But in those details, it was learned that the ship's rivets, made of highest quality #4 iron, which were badly deformed in the collision, were almost replaced by slightly inferior #3 iron, which might well have sheared off entirely. So if the Titanic had actually started leaking unrecoverably, what might the result have been?

Admiral Halsey · Aug 21, 2014

Well for starters the fixing of the safety regulations would've happened sooner. Considering where the ship was when she struck and the location of other ships if she had sunk not many people would've lived, thus the disaster with the Queen Mary could've easily been avoided if only lifeboats for all had been required by law.

packmanwiscy · Aug 22, 2014

If the Titanic wasn't hit in 1916 by German submarines maybe the US stays out of WWI. I mean you can't sink a ship that isn't sailing, right?

Admiral Halsey · Aug 22, 2014

packmanwiscy said:
If the Titanic wasn't hit in 1916 by German submarines maybe the US stays out of WWI. I mean you can't sink a ship that isn't sailing, right?

Oh here we go again with the "Titanic was the reason the US went to war with Germany" people. Look the Titanic was one of MANY reasons the US went to war with Germany. If anything the Eckardt telegram was the main reason war was declared.

packmanwiscy · Aug 22, 2014

Admiral Halsey said:
Oh here we go again with the "Titanic was the reason the US went to war with Germany" people. Look the Titanic was one of MANY reasons the US went to war with Germany. If anything the Eckardt telegram was the main reason war was declared.

It was the straw that broke the camel's back. We all know Wilson wanted to stay out of European affairs. We all know Mexico wouldn't have really hurt the US in 1916 and it was a hopeless scheme. But we were still pissed those Germans had the nerve to ask. When the Titanic sank, Wilson knew he had to act.

Admiral Halsey · Aug 22, 2014

packmanwiscy said:
It was the straw that broke the camel's back. We all know Wilson wanted to stay out of European affairs. We all know Mexico wouldn't have really hurt the US in 1916 and it was a hopeless scheme. But we were still pissed those Germans had the nerve to ask. When the Titanic sank, Wilson knew he had to act.

The Titanic wasn't even an American ship and don't forget it did come out recently she was carrying illegals arms thus making her a legitimate target.

packmanwiscy · Aug 22, 2014

Admiral Halsey said:
The Titanic wasn't even an American ship and don't forget it did come out recently she was carrying illegals arms thus making her a legitimate target.

But the Germans didn't find that out until the Titanic sank. And you can't just ignore the over 100 American fatalities.

Admiral Halsey · Aug 22, 2014

packmanwiscy said:
But the Germans didn't find that out until the Titanic sank. And you can't just ignore the over 100 American fatalities.

True but it was an accident remember? The Germans stripped the captain of his rank and court-martialed him. The Kaiser had given out the order to not attack any of the great liners that hadn't been converted for troop transport remember?

Whitewings · Aug 22, 2014

Tensions in 1916 were running so high that almost any kind of attack on anything considered a civilian target could have been that breaking straw. Remember when Herr Kapitan von Rumkhorf (or Dummkopf as he's come to be known) ordered those Russian gillnetters shelled back in 1915? The only reason that wasn't the straw was the gunners deciding to miss the fishermen as completely as they could. The not-so-good captain's sentence was relatively light because the courts felt a lifetime as a laughingstock was already a formidable punishment.

Scherzo · Aug 22, 2014

Maybe White Star wouldn't have bought out Cunard Line then. If I remember correctly that was going to be the Titanic's last voyage before being converted into a hospital ship for relieving the Galipolli campaign; the Britannic took her route the next month. The Cunard line of course lost both the Mauritania and Aquitania in the war under RN service (as well as several smaller vessels), so by the end of the war they only had the Lusitania to put into service.

SactoMan101 · Aug 22, 2014

Wasn't the Titanic taken out of service for nearly a year not only to repair the iceberg damage, but to improve a number of safety features like adding more lifeboats? I still remember White Star Line grumbling they had to cut the passenger load by nearly 500 passengers because of the increased safety measures (which was also retrofitted to the Olympic at the same time).

sharlin · Aug 22, 2014

SactoMan101 said:
Wasn't the Titanic taken out of service for nearly a year not only to repair the iceberg damage, but to improve a number of safety features like adding more lifeboats? I still remember White Star Line grumbling they had to cut the passenger load by nearly 500 passengers because of the increased safety measures (which was also retrofitted to the Olympic at the same time).

I've got to agree, the shock at how close she came and she was bloody lucky did also make the White Star Line realise that there was nowhere near enough lifeboats onboard. I thought that changed the law or did it only change what a company did.

Admiral Halsey · Aug 22, 2014

Admiral Halsey said:
Well for starters the fixing of the safety regulations would've happened sooner. Considering where the ship was when she struck and the location of other ships if she had sunk not many people would've lived, thus the disaster with the Queen Mary could've easily been avoided if only lifeboats for all had been required by law.

OOC: Are you guys missing this post I made?

Nae'Blis · Aug 22, 2014

Oh who cares about the Titanic? The Empress of Ireland is the only ship worth knowing about, you've all seen Cameron's film on the topic.

tigercat · Aug 22, 2014

Much better film than Raise the Empress based on the Clive Cussler book

Tom Colton · Aug 22, 2014

jamhaw said:
Oh who cares about the Titanic? The Empress of Ireland is the only ship worth knowing about, you've all seen Cameron's film on the topic.

The effects were great, but the romantic "sub"plot involving River Phoenix and Claire Danes? That was just tacked on and unnecessary. And don't get me started on the necklace plot device!

GarethC · Aug 22, 2014

Well, Guggenheim was on the ship, and obviously had a pretty rigid sense of duty - it's not impossible he would have gone down with it, and then you have to wonder if there would even have been Business Plot without him.

And then you get FDR being president for a full term - maybe even getting re-elected?

pieman97405 · Aug 22, 2014

GarethC said:
Well, Guggenheim was on the ship, and obviously had a pretty rigid sense of duty - it's not impossible he would have gone down with it, and then you have to wonder if there would even have been Business Plot without him.

And then you get FDR being president for a full term - maybe even getting re-elected?

I can't see a surviving FDR doing near as well as president Garner did. After the assasination and attempted coup Garner was able to get a lot of reforms through congress. I can't see FDR pulling many of the same reforms off without the anger and fear the attempt brought about.

Ultimate Paragon · Aug 22, 2014

Tom Colton said:
The effects were great, but the romantic "sub"plot involving River Phoenix and Claire Danes? That was just tacked on and unnecessary. And don't get me started on the necklace plot device!

Me, I'm more angry that they vilified real people.

Corjomc · Aug 22, 2014

The Titanic sinking is pure ASB and I believe this discussion needs to be moved to that section