Presuming that Carthage survives and maintains its extensive trading network, even some of its more adventurous expeditions. How might this influence the lands south of the Sahara? Might they jumpstart the trans-Saharan trade network that the Arabs eventually established? Or might their preference for maritime trade preclude such a development?
Implications of a surviving Carthage on Subsaharan Africa
- Thread starter DominusNovus
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If they are less successful in the Mediterranean, I could see them possibly turning their attention more to west Africa for trade.
Nitpick: The Arabs didn't start the trade network, it's been around for ages.
Perhaps the West African coast would have been urbanized sooner to take advantage of a boon in trade, but AFAIK Carthaginian trade in that region was very odd: the two parties never met face to face, the Carthaginians just left their wares on a mat and left, then the Africans came and left their counter-offer, and things went back and forth like that.
PhoenicianLegacy
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More or less the same that Rome had on Europe in OTL. In the long term, African peoples from the Subsaharan section will become fully civilized in like how Europeans north of Rome did and be on more equal footings.
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I wonder if it would lead to the Arab Spring spreading to sub-saharan Africa.
Depends upon how long Carthage survives for really and the criteria that would be needed for it to survive for a longer period of time.
For one you'd need a very limited Carthaginian presence in Europe. This would mean removing Carthage as a regional power in Sicily, Sardinia and Iberia, otherwise it will be guaranteed to get drawn into conflicts very soon with Rome or a Greek civilization. Maybe have Carthage focus much more upon sailing down and colonizing Africa's west coast as slydessertfox suggested. This would push Carthage's interests further away from the Mediterranean and further away from any other power on an equal scale to Carthage. You could then have Carthaginian culture have a large impact upon the culture of western Africa over a long period of time (a few centuries maybe?), but that could crumble if the Islamic Caliphates spring up like they do in OTL (doubt it if Rome doesn't conquer the Levant as that would lead to no Christianity, and no Christianity means no Islam).
A much more unlikely scenario for a surviving Carthage would be to have Carthage make a large pre-emptive strike on Rome some time in the 4th century BC before they can actually gather enough strength to challenge and defeat Carthage, but you'd need some major butterflies for that one.
For one you'd need a very limited Carthaginian presence in Europe. This would mean removing Carthage as a regional power in Sicily, Sardinia and Iberia, otherwise it will be guaranteed to get drawn into conflicts very soon with Rome or a Greek civilization. Maybe have Carthage focus much more upon sailing down and colonizing Africa's west coast as slydessertfox suggested. This would push Carthage's interests further away from the Mediterranean and further away from any other power on an equal scale to Carthage. You could then have Carthaginian culture have a large impact upon the culture of western Africa over a long period of time (a few centuries maybe?), but that could crumble if the Islamic Caliphates spring up like they do in OTL (doubt it if Rome doesn't conquer the Levant as that would lead to no Christianity, and no Christianity means no Islam).
A much more unlikely scenario for a surviving Carthage would be to have Carthage make a large pre-emptive strike on Rome some time in the 4th century BC before they can actually gather enough strength to challenge and defeat Carthage, but you'd need some major butterflies for that one.
Colonization isn't happening. It's just too far away, and there's no need to establish bases to protect the maritime route since there were no major seafaring African powers in the region. Simple trade is the better option. Also, it's doubtful if Carthage could keep the trade going over sea if Rome took Iberia, unless Rome is suddenly nice and doesn't interfere.
More likely option IMO is boost in overland trade unless Carthage keeps at least southern Iberia. If overland, not much changes for Carthage since that trade was handled by middlemen. If by sea, perhaps the West Africans will gravitate towards the coast in order to take advantage, perhaps sparking an earlier developed coastline. But I just can't see colonization, even the more passive version of Phoenician colonization.
Presumably for Carthage to survive, Rome is butterflied away. They could colonize the canaries.
Fair point.
Something would certainly need to happen to Rome then for any sort of surviving Carthaginian Empire. Maybe the Sack of Rome in 390 BC by the Gauls under Brennus is more destructive and perhaps becomes more of a violent massacre of the Roman population? That could remove the Romans from history and allow the Etruscans, Samnites, Gauls and Greeks in Italy to fill the vacuum that would have been left by Rome. After all, a divided Italy can only serve as a boon to Carthage.
Alternatively you could have Pyrrhus do much better against the Romans at Asculum and have him lay siege to, and eventually capture Rome? I'm not sure of the plausability of that to be fair, and not sure about Pyrrhus' ability at that time to lay siege to Rome itself.
Or, just have Carthage stronger in the lead up to the First Pubic War, and pull out a victory in that conflict. And Carthegian victory there is going to see a much weaker Rome, as well as the loosening of their alliance system.
I nearly spat out my coffee lol I may consider using that as my sig, with your permission.
But I thought Rome and Carthage both fought on the side of the Shaved in that conflict
I think you'd need stronger the Imazighen peoples (berbers) as a whole, sedentary and nomadic, or maybe give them more longer lasting leverage over Carthage as it grows. Might have helped them get better relations with the nomadic tribes who would have been more likely to spread some of their influence into the southern regions. More integrative processes and relations would have helped too.
I think it would have made the nomadic tribes more open to a more heavier and consistent trade with the Garamantes and Mauretanians. And from them maybe the Nok will pickup a few things and the influence will swing back from these native peoples as they steer Carthage or diversify some of its interests from being as eastern and Mediterranean oriented as it was. Mediterranean world would still be very important, but wouldn't be as much of a backbone as it was OTL.
Quick interesting thing I'd like to point out.
If you search for Akan gold weights, you'll find many of the symbols on the gold sets that match up with the current tiffinagh script. Now many of these gold weights were made a few centuries ago, but the fact that the symbols used are more than vaguely recognizable with this current north african script and the fact that many times the so called weights were used to store information seems more than a coincidence. This seems to suggest that there may already have been an avenue for ancient contact of northern africa with subsaharan africa through their writing scripts, or at least a distant proto-culture.
Keep in mind that many of the groups present in what we now know as sub-saharan africa also migrated from more northernly locations too, like the hausa, fulani, some akan groups and other groups near the chad basin. Maybe this area could become more of an incubator for a saharan trade script or traders language thanks to the garamantes? The garamantes, were found to have a wide trading network, so the possibility of groups within the area exchanging, learning and teaching with their northern counterparts might be a thing if Carthage can establish more friendly relations with their neighbors in the interior.
If not that maybe have sedentary Imazighen interfere more in Carthaganian politics or use their brethren and their contacts as counterweights for more leverage over Carthage.
I think it would have made the nomadic tribes more open to a more heavier and consistent trade with the Garamantes and Mauretanians. And from them maybe the Nok will pickup a few things and the influence will swing back from these native peoples as they steer Carthage or diversify some of its interests from being as eastern and Mediterranean oriented as it was. Mediterranean world would still be very important, but wouldn't be as much of a backbone as it was OTL.
Quick interesting thing I'd like to point out.
If you search for Akan gold weights, you'll find many of the symbols on the gold sets that match up with the current tiffinagh script. Now many of these gold weights were made a few centuries ago, but the fact that the symbols used are more than vaguely recognizable with this current north african script and the fact that many times the so called weights were used to store information seems more than a coincidence. This seems to suggest that there may already have been an avenue for ancient contact of northern africa with subsaharan africa through their writing scripts, or at least a distant proto-culture.
Keep in mind that many of the groups present in what we now know as sub-saharan africa also migrated from more northernly locations too, like the hausa, fulani, some akan groups and other groups near the chad basin. Maybe this area could become more of an incubator for a saharan trade script or traders language thanks to the garamantes? The garamantes, were found to have a wide trading network, so the possibility of groups within the area exchanging, learning and teaching with their northern counterparts might be a thing if Carthage can establish more friendly relations with their neighbors in the interior.
If not that maybe have sedentary Imazighen interfere more in Carthaganian politics or use their brethren and their contacts as counterweights for more leverage over Carthage.
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The Sao culture, which arose in the Chad Basin since about 600 BCE, was found to have been urban in character. Ceramic scultures have been found among their buried goods and they even worked with bronze and iron. The Kotoko people are counted as being the descendents of the Sao people. About the same time in Nigeria existed the Nok culture, who were at a similar level of technology as the Sao.
But I thought Rome and Carthage both fought on the side of the Shaved in that conflict
Sadly, the Romans and the Carthaginians both lost in the First Pubic War to the Japanese and the Brazilians. Shaved culture suffered for over a millennia afterwards.
A turning point could be the Battle of Capua. This is an idea I had from my post "The Golden Continent":
In turns of effects, I think there could be much earlier Sahelian kingdoms, leading to a more developed West Africa down the line. A modified Punic script might spread throughout the region as the Sahel states adopt it for bureaucratic purposes.
Well, weren't Dido and AEneas both supposed to have been descended from Venus?