WI: Sukarno not overthrown in 1965 coup

Hello ,Frist time poster On AH.com

I have been a lurker on many of the threads in AH.com and I have decided to do a ATL on My home country Indonesia.

I have read and heard that the CIA and MI6 had been involved in the removal of the Frist indonesian president Sukarno in 1965 as he had been very open to the Soivet Bloc during the cold war(Suharto was one of the main figures in the Non aligned movement).


I think if Sukarno had not been overthrown Indonesia would stay neutral in the cold war ,but is it possible that the Soivet Union help Indonesia in the Konfrantasi with The British and may end up turning into a vietnam style conflict.

Please go easy on me.

Welcome to AH.com, buddy!

If Sukarno was not overthrown by a military coup, expect an Indonesian nation led by a Communist government, which is one of the biggest fears of the US of A. Why? Two reasons:
1. It could possibly endanger Australia.
2. It could be uncomfortable for Portugal's part.

Adid1998 said:

Hello ,Frist time poster On AH.com

I have been a lurker on many of the threads in AH.com and I have decided to do a ATL on My home country Indonesia.

I have read and heard that the CIA and MI6 had been involved in the removal of the Frist indonesian president Sukarno in 1965 as he had been very open to the Soivet Bloc during the cold war(Suharto was one of the main figures in the Non aligned movement).


I think if Sukarno had not been overthrown Indonesia would stay neutral in the cold war ,but is it possible that the Soivet Union help Indonesia in the Konfrantasi with The British and may end up turning into a vietnam style conflict.

Please go easy on me.

Click to expand...

Welcome to AH!

For info on the attempts to overthrow Sukarno, I suggest reading Tim Weiner's "Legacy of Lies" (A history of the CIA); it details the campaign the US waged against Sukarno in the 50s and 60s.

The problem here is that when Sukarno "lurched to the left" in 1965 by staging a coup against his own government, it alienated the military and intensified Washington's attempts to overthrow him. In such a situation a coup was inevitable.

In many ways, the situation was of the US's making; the CIA had staged a coup attempt against Sukrano in 1958 because he did not explicitly commit himself to the West in the Cold War (In the eyes of Allen Dulles {CIA director} and his brother Foster {Sec of State} there were no neutrals). The coup failed, and simply gave the local communists an increase in support.

Welcome to AH.com

In response to your question had Sukarno not been couped well one major consequence is Indonesia grows closer to the URSS, possibly even becoming closer with China. Maybe it also leads to a earlier invaison of East Timor. It also could lead to a success by the Malaysian Communists in there struggle for indepedence from UK or for bigger US support to Malaysia if the Communists lose.

welcome to the good ship of madness, as some one brought up the CIA failed amazingly in 1958 to get rid of Sukarno, which greatly empowered the Communist Party, making it the 3rd largest on earth and the largest outside the Communist block

Sukarno's falling was going to far to one side, he rode the line all his political life, not jumping too far right or left trying to keep the communists and the military happy, at the end he went to far left and well….

alex costa said:

Welcome to AH.com

In response to your question had Sukarno not been couped well one major consequence is Indonesia grows closer to the URSS, possibly even becoming closer with China. Maybe it also leads to a earlier invaison of East Timor. It also could lead to a success by the Malaysian Communists in there struggle for indepedence from UK or for bigger US support to Malaysia if the Communists lose.

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The Malays [our own UMNO] also struggled for independence as well from the British. It's just a matter of success by the Communist Party. [By the time even the required pods turn around, Malaysia had obtained independence and the Malayan Emergency was about to end, and probably ended as well[1960].
Pertubuhan Kebangsaan Melayu Bersawi [UMNO] juga berjuang untuk kemerdekaan Malaysia daripada penjajahan Inggeris.[Dan cara Malaysia mendapat kemerdekaan lebih penting daripada perang saudara yang dikenali sebagai "Malayan Emergency". Malaysia yang dipimpin oleh Parti Kommunis Melayu ialah perkara kejayaan Chin Peng sahaja. [Apabila peristiwa yang diperlukan berlaku, Malaysia telah mencapai kemerdekaan dan Darurat akan tamat [peristiwa Darurat tamat pada tahun 1960.]

alex costa said:

Welcome to AH.com

In response to your question had Sukarno not been couped well one major consequence is Indonesia grows closer to the URSS, possibly even becoming closer with China.

Click to expand...

Despite the size of the Indonesian Communist Party, it was severely lacking in terms of administrative influence. Any move towards alignment with the USSR or China is going to see the military and conservative camps, with or without the tacit endorsement of the CIA, come down on Sukarno like vultures on a pork chop.

Maybe it also leads to a earlier invaison of East Timor. It also could lead to a success by the Malaysian Communists in there struggle for indepedence from UK or for bigger US support to Malaysia if the Communists lose.

Click to expand...

Hell will freeze over before the reds come within 200 miles of success in Malaysia.

ChazMo said:

Despite the size of the Indonesian Communist Party, it was severely lacking in terms of administrative influence. Any move towards alignment with the USSR or China is going to see the military and conservative camps, with or without the tacit endorsement of the CIA, come down on Sukarno like vultures on a pork chop.

Hell will freeze over before the reds come within 200 miles of success in Malaysia.

Click to expand...

Which is pretty much what happened. When Sukrano aligned himself with the PKI against the Military, he made a fatal mistake. The military rose up and killed a lot of communists...with support from the CIA.

halo datang dari mana saya dari bekasi?
anyway that means soekarno notorious (and true fact) about playing with woman heart will continue.
look at the FPDA that say that east malaysia are not included, possibly by their ultimate concern is about gateway of west to east will be disturbed and indonesia will be in control of 2 most strategic strait
well it is known fact that soekarno has deep leaning to left idelogy if soviet help us with their power
it will make indonesian communist

one thing such place with strategic area CANNOT FALL TO THE ENEMY HANDS
expect proxy war

Prevent Ahmad Yani receiving US paychecks, and prevent the Communists receiving Chinese paychecks. Both sides on 1965 coup (Ahmad Yani's dewan Jendral) countercoup (Communist countercoup on 30 September) and counter countercoup (Soeharto's 1 October counter countercoup) are all guilty of foreign involvements.

Sukarno had given approval to Aidit’s proposal to arm the PKI militia, ostensibly so that they could be used in Konfronatasi. Bung Karno probably thought that this ‘fourth arm’ of the military would enhance the balance between the army and the PKI, but in all likelihood it would have resulted in an armed putsch when Aidit thought he had the strength, or a civil war between the PKI and the army if the army responded in time. Strangely, the arming of the militia was supported by the heads of the navy and air force, against the objections of the army.

Assuming that the 30 September Movement’s abortive coup attempt doesn’t take place, and Sukarno remains in control at least for the time being, thing are going to come to a head very quickly regardless; the Indonesian economy was already in a shambles and getting worse at an extraordinary rate, inflation was growing exponentially and had already exceeded 600% by mid-1965. Sukarno’s economic policy announcements had no basis in reality, were focused principally on numerology; the Eight Year Economic Plan of 1960 contained eight volumes, seventeen parts and 1,945 clauses: 8/17/1945 – the date of Indonesian independence. Sukarno neither understood economics nor had any interest in doing so. The closest his government came to responding to the hyperinflation was to add extra zeros to the Rupiah banknotes at increasingly shorter intervals. Granted, hyperinflation does not bring down every irrational regime: Burma and Zimbabwe are clear examples of where they haven't, but money to prop up the regime has to come from somewhere and both Burma and Zimbabwe were 'governed' (for want of a better word) by regimes that had already done away with any real opposition; Sukarno's regime was balanced on top of groups opposed not just to each other, but to him as well. Because of Sukarno’s unwillingness to make rational government plans, the IMF was unable to provide further real assistance. Aidit was able to obtain funds from Beijing, but this meant that he had the dominant say in where these funds would be distributed; Sukarno still the money for grandiose buildings to enhance his own prestige and arms for the military, but they money came with obvious strings attached – PKI affiliated unions provided the building labour and the arms purchases were now principally from China.

It is hard to see how Sukarno could have remained in power much longer, if the abortive coup attempt hadn’t happened, a more organised PKI takeover, or simply civil war was most likely within a year anyway.