WI solar superstorm in 2012

Hnau

Banned
science.nasa.gov said:
July 23, 2014: If an asteroid big enough to knock modern civilization back to the 18th century appeared out of deep space and buzzed the Earth-Moon system, the near-miss would be instant worldwide headline news.

Two years ago, Earth experienced a close shave just as perilous, but most newspapers didn't mention it. The "impactor" was an extreme solar storm, the most powerful in as much as 150+ years.

"If it had hit, we would still be picking up the pieces," says Daniel Baker of the University of Colorado.

Baker, along with colleagues from NASA and other universities, published a seminal study of the storm in the December 2013 issue of the journal Space Weather. Their paper, entitled "A major solar eruptive event in July 2012," describes how a powerful coronal mass ejection (CME) tore through Earth orbit on July 23, 2012. Fortunately Earth wasn't there. Instead, the storm cloud hit the STEREO-A spacecraft.

"I have come away from our recent studies more convinced than ever that Earth and its inhabitants were incredibly fortunate that the 2012 eruption happened when it did," says Baker. "If the eruption had occurred only one week earlier, Earth would have been in the line of fire.

Extreme solar storms pose a threat to all forms of high-technology. They begin with an explosion--a "solar flare"—in the magnetic canopy of a sunspot. X-rays and extreme UV radiation reach Earth at light speed, ionizing the upper layers of our atmosphere; side-effects of this "solar EMP" include radio blackouts and GPS navigation errors. Minutes to hours later, the energetic particles arrive. Moving only slightly slower than light itself, electrons and protons accelerated by the blast can electrify satellites and damage their electronics. Then come the CMEs, billion-ton clouds of magnetized plasma that take a day or more to cross the Sun-Earth divide. Analysts believe that a direct hit by an extreme CME such as the one that missed Earth in July 2012 could cause widespread power blackouts, disabling everything that plugs into a wall socket. Most people wouldn't even be able to flush their toilet because urban water supplies largely rely on electric pumps.

Before July 2012, when researchers talked about extreme solar storms their touchstone was the iconic Carrington Event of Sept. 1859, named after English astronomer Richard Carrington who actually saw the instigating flare with his own eyes. In the days that followed his observation, a series of powerful CMEs hit Earth head-on with a potency not felt before or since. Intense geomagnetic storms ignited Northern Lights as far south as Cuba and caused global telegraph lines to spark, setting fire to some telegraph offices and thus disabling the 'Victorian Internet."

"In my view the July 2012 storm was in all respects at least as strong as the 1859 Carrington event," says Baker. "The only difference is, it missed."

WI the coronal mass ejection of 2012 had erupted a week earlier, on July 16th? It causes a solar superstorm on the scale of the 1859 Carrington Event worldwide. The communication satellite network is knocked out, maybe for good, and public electric systems worldwide fail, leading to blackouts everywhere.

Hurricane Sandy happened this year, in October. I wonder how its effects might be magnified if people on the Eastern Seaboard of the US had no power for three months before it hits.
 
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...people might even get out horses to ship food from farms to grocery.

Without making comment as to the plausibility of the scope of the scenario you’re presenting...

...I will say that you’re overcomplicating things here. :p
 

Delta Force

Banned
Could cars be repaired in the event of a solar superstorm? I'm not sure.

There's a certain type of ignition system that was common in cars prior to sometime in the 1980s that is apparently EMP resistant. The bigger issue is that apart from generally poor fuel economy, older vehicles have technologies that few people know how to maintain, and there probably isn't sufficient knowledge of their systems (for example, carburetors) or, in the United States at least, how to work a manual transmission.
 
Could cars be repaired in the event of a solar superstorm? I'm not sure.

Cars are relatively immune to EMP because of there construction and they are isolated from the Grid. So I doubt that a CME would produce any damage to vehicles. The biggest issue would be the eventual lack of fuel from breakdown of fuel transportation infrastructure because of the damage to the power grid.
 

Delta Force

Banned
Cars are relatively immune to EMP because of there construction and they are isolated from the Grid. So I doubt that a CME would produce any damage to vehicles. The biggest issue would be the eventual lack of fuel from breakdown of fuel transportation infrastructure because of the damage to the power grid.

Also, any existing gasoline will go "stale" after six months, although I think additives can increase the time. It's not like in the movies where you can simply siphon gasoline from vehicles indefinitely.
 
A aspect of EMP and CME that I find interesting is what steps can be taken to prepare in the event of natural EMP like a CME? We would probably have several days warning and what actions could be taken to prepare for this and how effective would they be? For example if the power grid operators simply shutdown the grid before the CME hits? Most substations can be computer controlled and can be simply shutdown a few hours before the CME hits. The substations literally have large switches that allow the substation to be isolated from the rest of the PowerGrid - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Ji0SmydDM&list=PL-ck_hYe-nDSgbAcuPoX2fEqMT8dZGBpK These switches literally create a gap in the Power Line to isolate the substation from the Grid. This is to allow maintenance on the substation or de-energize powerlines for maintenance. The smaller transformers that don't have mechanical disconnects might be hit hard by the large transformers that are critical to the Grid I see them surviving intact because of this grid disconnect ability.
 
Cars are relatively immune to EMP because of there construction and they are isolated from the Grid. So I doubt that a CME would produce any damage to vehicles. The biggest issue would be the eventual lack of fuel from breakdown of fuel transportation infrastructure because of the damage to the power grid.

Most if not all modern cars have computers in them. Older cars could survive, but not newer ones.
 
I was in China, in a city of around 3 million people at the time and was supposed to return to the US in just a few days. If the solar flare happened, I'd assume I'd be stranded in China. How long would you guys say I'd be stranded and what would I witness while I was there? Would there be anarchy and chaos followed by martial law? Also, what would the food and water situation be like? I'm REALLY curious as to how differently my life would've turned out in this situation.
 
Most if not all modern cars have computers in them. Older cars could survive, but not newer ones.

The worse thing that would happen is the car would probably turn off and you would be forced to re-start it. Cars because of the frame and the tires had good insulation from EMP which is why in a electrical storm you are told to stay in your car. Even more in the scenario of a CME most people would probably have their cars turned off and parked. While Hollywood likes to make it seem the EMP can magically destroy the electronics in millions of cars it just isn't realistic with so many variables. The biggest thing is that EMP depends on long electrical lines to help build up a damaging charge. In a car this just isn't possible. Yeah if a CME hit and you had your home electronics plugged into wall outlets they will probably be fried. However your late model car in the garage will probably start just fine because it is isolated. Might have trouble with the powered garage door opener. :)
 
Its going to vary widely from one car to another. A decade ago I read a study of the effect of a powerfull multifrequency radio transmitter on autos passing on the street nearby. Some passed without anything noticeable to the driver, some ran raggedly for a few seconds. A few stalled. The direction the car was moving, the composition of the car, the type of electronic controls, position of the controls in the car, were all variables.

One thing I'll say for certain; The conspricy paranoids will run with this one had it occured.
 
Cars are relatively immune to EMP because of there construction and they are isolated from the Grid. So I doubt that a CME would produce any damage to vehicles. The biggest issue would be the eventual lack of fuel from breakdown of fuel transportation infrastructure because of the damage to the power grid.

The group of mechanics that my father falls into, the ones just about to retire (55-65 years old) know these machines like the back of their hands. No issues there. If any small warning can be given the simple expedient of disconnecting the battery and pulling fuses can safeguard a modern vehicle or any machinery.
 

ThePest179

Banned
Don't most armed forces have protection against an EMP strike? If so, then the anarchy of the event would be reduced by some degree.
 
Wouldn't this be WAY beyond a mere nuke EMP though?

Because if the backup systems in the nuclear plants get fried.....

If the nuclear plants where already isolated from the Grid before the CME hit's I don't see this having much effect since charges building up along power lines wouldn't be affecting equipment inside the nuclear plant. Of course this assumes the plant is taken offline and the control rods are lowered to shutdown the reaction.
 
If the nuclear plants where already isolated from the Grid before the CME hit's I don't see this having much effect since charges building up along power lines wouldn't be affecting equipment inside the nuclear plant. Of course this assumes the plant is taken offline and the control rods are lowered to shutdown the reaction.

If the plants had sufficient warning they would be fine. But human error could cause a few plants (out of hundreds) to lose all power and meltdown
 
This will trip every circuit-breaker in every country in the world, killing not only electricity, but also any sort of communications beyond basically shouting.
 
on to the topic at hand how permanent would the effects be? would we be looking at human civilization being set back a century? or would it be far less serious and something like power is out a bit.
 
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