The Timelines of August : An AH.com WWI Thematic Month

Nearly a month ago, we commemorated the centenary of the Sarajevo assasination. On Monday, the whole world will commemorate the beginning of the First World War, The Great War, World War One. The war that, sadly, wasn't really the War to End All Wars. And for good and bad, it's legacy is still with us today, a century later.

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And therefore, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...



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For the entirety of August, we'll be using this thread to commemorate historical and especially allohistorical fiction dealing with the era and topic of the Great War.

We'll reminescence about AH.com's WWI timelines and stories, past and present, we'll discuss and criticque the state of AH fiction about WWI, we'll talk about WWI-related concepts that haven't been tried yet in AH literature and other works.

There is lots of room for various WWI stuff this month. Make a suggestion, and we might try it. How about:
- Voting for the "best WWI timeline of AH.com".
- Voting for the "best WWI story of AH.com".
- Spiffying up the WWI-related databases on the board and the wiki.
- Reviews, personal or collaborative, of published WWI AH works.
- And anything other that comes to mind.

Whichever of the many theatres of the war we discuss, and whichever nation's role in the war, big or small, we ruminate over, let's dedicate this whole month to the memory of the First World War. And let's do it in style !

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Also, in the coming four years, we'll organise several follow-up projects and threads to this one, offering various different outlooks on the topic of WWI and WWI-related AH. This might be the first centennial, but there will be several more until we hit November 2018.

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Partner threads and sites:

WWI Centenary Thread

Early 20th Century Timelines

WWI PODs

WWI Resources

War Memorial Thread

Collecting War Stories

Hurray! Hurray!

Come on KotU! You just had to abandon that idea you had for a WWI TL, didn't you?

I'd love to see a really really good Central Powers victory DBWI. I tried last year on the 99th anniversary, but it fizzled.

Also, I have a timeline I'd like to work on, hopefully to be published on the 101st anniversary. But I have a hard time researching because I get bored with books related to the subject.

Good to hear, guys.

Researching for timeline writing is always a tedious process, so I can sympathise with those who find it tiring or off-putting at times.


On a more unrelated note, which is your favourite WWI-themed work that originated on AH.com ?

I haven't actually seen any good CP victory timelines.

Richard Harrow said:

I haven't actually seen any good CP victory timelines.

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Most of them look too hard at war aims and not enough at the geopolitical reality of the era. As such, we see Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the Turks annexing excessive amounts of territory (including overseas colonies) when the likeliest outcome (to my mind, depending on the POD) is a return to the status quo.

Agreed, EONZ. I think that's a narrative flaw in many timelines that try to tackle the topic.

Petike said:

Agreed, EONZ. I think that's a narrative flaw in many timelines that try to tackle the topic.

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My least favorite is Belgium getting annexed.

Britain went to war to protect Belgian nutrality, they wouldn't let get annexed. Puppetized? Yes. Small parts of Flanders Annexed? Probably Yes. But the Germans most likely wouldn't even want all of Belgium, to many French speakers, same with the vast amounts of Northern France they seem to gobble up sometimes. The Germans didn't want that much in the war of Territory going into the war. At least against the Western allies, Maybe a few colonies in Africa.

On the subject of Colonies, if Germany wins and gets a 1914 border agreement, how does Japan respond? The Germans have no real way of enforcing said treaty on the new Japanese holdings, especially if they don't sign in the first place. Would the Germans just agree to "sell" the various Pacific islands that had been seized?

The least popular aspect of WWI AH for me is that some particular fronts and battlefields get overlooked for the more popular ones. It's similar to the chliché of how nearly every ACW POD has to focus on Gettysburg or Antietam or some other well-known clash.

Also, a lot of AH WWI fiction hardly adresses the civilian side of the war, or the characters in the support infrastructure of the war effort. Yet, that particular area is every bit as fascinating as the war industries of the various countries, or the fighting at the frontlines.

King of the Uzbeks said:

My least favorite is Belgium getting annexed. Britain went to war to protect Belgian nutrality, they wouldn't let get annexed. Puppetized? Yes. Small parts of Flanders Annexed? Probably Yes. But the Germans most likely wouldn't even want all of Belgium, to many French speakers, same with the vast amounts of Northern France they seem to gobble up sometimes. The Germans didn't want that much in the war of Territory going into the war. At least against the Western allies, Maybe a few colonies in Africa.

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Belgium and its population took quite a beating already in OTL, so outright having it annexed in ATL - especially with the pretense of "annexation will be easy" - is a bit overdone and somewhat strains plausibility, IMHO.

King of the Uzbeks said:

On the subject of Colonies, if Germany wins and gets a 1914 border agreement, how does Japan respond? The Germans have no real way of enforcing said treaty on the new Japanese holdings, especially if they don't sign in the first place. Would the Germans just agree to "sell" the various Pacific islands that had been seized?

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A very good question. This hardly ever gets adressed, IMHO.

King of the Uzbeks said:

On the subject of Colonies, if Germany wins and gets a 1914 border agreement, how does Japan respond? The Germans have no real way of enforcing said treaty on the new Japanese holdings, especially if they don't sign in the first place. Would the Germans just agree to "sell" the various Pacific islands that had been seized?

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Well, it's as they say, Britannia Rules The Waves. Even in the event of a German 'victory', the only colony they'll likely still hold onto is East Africa due to the fact that it was the only one not overrun within the first year or two of the war. Britain would push hard to annex that colony, so might give them a free hand in French colonies (probably just Kamerun, probably...or Togoland, since it was the only truly 'valuable' German colony).

Ergo, Japan's occupation of the German East is a non-issue. The Germans have no sway at sea, and if they want peace, then they'll have to come to terms regarding the colonies. Aside from Japan, South Africa also holds Sudwest Afrika, while New Zealand occupies German Samoa, and both these countries were effectively independent, South Africa in 1910 and New Zealand in 1907 (dominions, yes, but the term basically gave them total independence).

Which is why it's considered a World War in the first place, really, because at the peace table it wasn't just Britain and the European powers, but Britain, the European powers, and the British dominions (and America, of course, but the POD determines their role).

As far as Central Powers victory TLs go, I think rast's "A Shift in Priority" is by far the best. "Strange Bedfellows" is also pretty good, since (IMO) it realistically handles a US entry into WWI. The USA doesn't just go HAM and crush the British Empire with no help.

Richard Harrow said:

I'd love to see a really really good Central Powers victory DBWI. I tried last year on the 99th anniversary, but it fizzled.

Also, I have a timeline I'd like to work on, hopefully to be published on the 101st anniversary. But I have a hard time researching because I get bored with books related to the subject.

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The problem with Central Powers DBWI (and any DBWI, IMO) is that people inevitably contradict each other in increasingly ridiculous ways. It's like that kid we all knew when we were little who would say "nuh-uh! You can't tag me because I have a force field!" during a game.

I always like to look at scenarios with the smallest changes possible, so I'm interested in a scenario where the US doesn't join WWI but everything else goes about the same, with a slightly different armistice and slightly different treaty. It'd be interesting to see the course the US could take if it had avoided sticking its nose into Europe's squabble, especially when the next Big War comes (assuming it does.)

I'm actually going to launch my Kaiserreich---ish TL in a few days. The sources offered are invaluable.

MasterSanders said:

I'm actually going to launch my Kaiserreich---ish TL in a few days. The sources offered are invaluable.

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Speaking of which, I'd love to make the divided France in Kaiserreich happen realistically. That or a Napoleonic restoration.

In general I have a French Civil War planned, for the '20s or '30s. I think I should play it out to see what works, instead of writing it for a particular outcome.

Richard Harrow said:

Speaking of which, I'd love to make the divided France in Kaiserreich happen realistically. That or a Napoleonic restoration.

In general I have a French Civil War planned, for the '20s or '30s. I think I should play it out to see what works, instead of writing it for a particular outcome.

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Stop stealing my ide....I mean, sounds great!

Seriously, I've thought about a Bonaparte restoration, but I have a hard time seeing that happening...especially if you have a hegemonic Germany next door eager to keep France down.

MasterSanders said:

Stop stealing my ide....I mean, sounds great!

Seriously, I've thought about a Bonaparte restoration, but I have a hard time seeing that happening...especially if you have a hegemonic Germany next door eager to keep France down.

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I was thinking about Napoleon V being propped up by the Germans. If the socialists get too powerful in the Civil War.

Napoleonic restoration would be cool, but I'm not sure how realistic it is. I know it's pretty implausible.

I was thinking of it becoming a three-sided quagmire, between republicans, socialists, and monarchists, at least at some point. I'm considering having the assassination of the king of Spain in 1906 being part of a suite of PODs, which would lead to a lot of anarchists fleeing to France, who would influence the leftist elements of the war.

Also, I plan on Russia never going communist. Maybe Lenin and friends, still in Switzerland, pay a visit to Paris...

Also you sigged me. I was hoping someone would find that post funny.

Richard Harrow said:

I was thinking about Napoleon V being propped up by the Germans. If the socialists get too powerful in the Civil War.

Napoleonic restoration would be cool, but I'm not sure how realistic it is. I know it's pretty implausible.

I was thinking of it becoming a three-sided quagmire, between republicans, socialists, and monarchists, at least at some point. I'm considering having the assassination of the king of Spain in 1906 being part of a suite of PODs, which would lead to a lot of anarchists fleeing to France, who would influence the leftist elements of the war.

Also, I plan on Russia never going communist. Maybe Lenin and friends, still in Switzerland, pay a visit to Paris...

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Again, I don't to give away too much, but France is going to become a very different place in my TL.

Also you sigged me. I was hoping someone would find that post funny.

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What can I say? I'm a connoisseur of great quotes.

Far too many CP victory timelines also have the flaw of concentrating obsessively on Germany and counting the rest of the CP countries as a tag-alongs. Just once I'd like to see a timeline where Germany does rather badly, Austria-Hungary backstabs it or something and slowly takes the lead (maybe even together with the cooperating Ottomans, ironically enough), and is calling the shots in the post-war world. Plus, the CP victory might be narrower, offering them some smaller, realistic gains in border territories (with an early enough armistice), but not anything significant.

Petike said:

Far too many CP victory timelines also have the flaw of concentrating obsessively on Germany and counting the rest of the CP countries as a tag-alongs. Just once I'd like to see a timeline where Germany does rather badly, Austria-Hungary backstabs it or something and slowly takes the lead (maybe even together with the cooperating Ottomans, ironically enough), and is calling the shots in the post-war world. Plus, the CP victory might be narrower, offering them some smaller, realistic gains in border territories (with an early enough armistice), but not anything significant.

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I've long thought that A-H has the capacity to completely scupper German plans for Poland with a few well placed decisions. After all a rival government in Lviv with a Habsburg who brings Galicia to the table as a bargaining chip and is running an actual civilian government for Poland could prove a massive headache for German attempts to annex the border strip.

Alex Richards said:

I've long thought that A-H has the capacity to completely scupper German plans for Poland with a few well placed decisions. After all a rival government in Lviv with a Habsburg who brings Galicia to the table as a bargaining chip and is running an actual civilian government for Poland could prove a massive headache for German attempts to annex the border strip.

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Cool idea, I'll admit. I've always been partial to TLs which feature WWI A-H meddling in modern day SE Poland and west Ukraine. They're interesting, and the concept is rather underused (and it's certainly more realistic than Imperial Germany just merrily annexing everything east of it if it wins WWI).