the german war

[TheGreatCocanut]

POD: bismark dies before the german empire is finished. this leaves austria-hungary and the south german confederacy. alternate alliances put SGC and AH on opposite sides of WWI. prussian side wins, AH falls apart, SGC falls apart. hitler fought in the bavarian army in WWI. hitler comes to power in bavaria during depression. hitler conquers other nations in SGC using blitz. hitler conquers austria with blitz. hitler invades prussia in 1939. prussia is a strong nation, with modern weapons, and a well trained army. who wins this war?

[TheGreatCocanut]

what nobody?

[HueyLong]

No, not really. Bismarck's death alone would not end a united Germany.

Hitler probably would not exist in this TL, or would be completely different. Plus, Bavaria is not equipped for a blitz.......

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Originally Posted by TheGreatCocanut

what nobody?

It's only been 12 goddamn minutes and, sorry to say, but you should let us develop the post-POD stuff. You haven't done a very good job.

[HueyLong]

I already asked him in private to tone it down, and think these out a bit more. Surely you did such things when you were new to AH? I remember a German superstate from WWI that I made (never posted it, never will).

In any case, why and when does Bismarck die?

[TheGreatCocanut]

Originally Posted by HueyLong

I already asked him in private to tone it down, and think these out a bit more. Surely you did such things when you were new to AH? I remember a German superstate from WWI that I made (never posted it, never will).

In any case, why and when does Bismarck die?

i don't know.

[HueyLong]

Then don't post until you do.

[TheGreatCocanut]

Originally Posted by HueyLong

Then don't post until you do.

i thought that killing him was the only way to stop germany from uniting, which is what i needed for this to work. as for bavaria not being bliz cappable, industrialization, imports and loans.

[Max Sinister]

I presume a POD between 1866 (Prussian-German war) and 1870 (German-French war). So there's a Northern German confederation, and Austria's out, but no German Reich yet. This could indeed postpone German unification - Bavaria's king Ludwig (yes, the mad one) didn't like the idea of united Germany, and Bismarck had to bribe him (no joke) that he would accept it. Have another Prussian chancellor who'd be more hesitant to use bribes as means, and Southern Germany could stay out for a few more decades.

[TheGreatCocanut]

Originally Posted by Max Sinister

I presume a POD between 1866 (Prussian-German war) and 1870 (German-French war). So there's a Northern German confederation, and Austria's out, but no German Reich yet. This could indeed postpone German unification - Bavaria's king Ludwig (yes, the mad one) didn't like the idea of united Germany, and Bismarck had to bribe him (no joke) that he would accept it. Have another Prussian chancellor who'd be more hesitant to use bribes as means, and Southern Germany could stay out for a few more decades.

thank you. i think we have a working POD now, and i can work on a timeline. how should bismark die? i thought maybe he chokes on his dinner or something.

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Originally Posted by TheGreatCocanut

how should bismark die? i thought maybe he chokes on his dinner or something.

Let me get this straight: YOU are asking US?

With any POD that early you're going to get a very different WWI. I'm not talking just about the outcome, I'm talking about the whole war, sides, dates, people, strategies, the whole 9 yards. There's no guarranty you'll have WWII later, and Hitler is butterflied away for sure.

So let's get back to the POD. Say Bismarck accidentally stabs himself with a fork in the eye and dies in late 1866. What now? 1867 brought the Luxembourg Crisis in OTL, when the French attempt to buy the grand duchy almost led to war with Prussia, and Napoleon III had to back down humiliated. How's this going to go differently? The same year also bought the Ausgleich, but I'll assume it's going to happen in the same manner as in OTL even without Bismarck (an alternate division requires a less desperate Austria).