Arab names for America

In case an Islamic civilization discovers and colonizes the Western Hemisphere, probably from al-Andalus or Maghreb, what would they name places in it?

I read an old thread on this, and someone proposed Ba'd al-Bahr for the continent (romanized as Badalbar). Could the caribbean be called al-Qarib, mesoamerica probably something like al-Anawaq, etc. ? Do those sound plausible?
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Arabic version of Hesperia Borealis and Hesperia Australis

In case an Islamic civilization discovers and colonizes the Western Hemisphere, probably from al-Andalus or Maghreb, what would they name places in it?

I read an old thread on this, and someone proposed Ba'd al-Bahr for the continent (romanized as Badalbar). Could the caribbean be called al-Qarib, mesoamerica probably something like al-Anawaq, etc. ? Do those sound plausible?

Romanized, it could be "something" (very loosely) like "eytalya" or "al-ghrbyh al-shmalyh", maybe...

Best,
 
Al-Kabir Gharb or Al-Baida Gharb (Great West or Far West) could be, if unimaginative, quite useful, alone or with complement as Al-Baida Dar.

(I'm sure I didn't translated it correctly, it's to be checked)
 
It's possible that, depending on where early Arab explorers land, that an Arabized version of America could develop if you believe the theory that America was named after a Central American tribe instead of Amerigo Vespucci.

However I think the most likely option is that they might pick a name based on a geographical feature or name based on the indigenous people or even some sort of misconceptions such as the "west indies", though the later depends on why they are sailing west to begin with. This would then depend on where they land, most likely in the Caribbean due to wind currants but who knows. That is of course not to ignore the idea that the continent is named after either its "discoverer" or someone highly influential in its later exploration such as Columbus and Amerigo Vespucci respectively.
 
Ba'd al-Bahr may work. Some variation of Gharb (West) is also very possible, although "Maghrib", the most obvious, is already taken.
There was an earlier thread on the same topic, where I made some other suggestions that I don't recall now.
 
al-Aqsa ('The Farthest') could be an idea, though I don't know if there's some prohibition on having a continent the same name as the third holiest mosque of Islam.

Something like 'al-Kuffar' (the infidels) could also be a good name for a more religious name for America. Or a more charitable name could be 'the Darkness' or something.

Course, it could just be named after the discoverer (like Gibraltar). 'Islands of Said' = Jaza'ir Said.
 

Morty Vicar

Banned
It would be like Conquistadors calling America Christianity. It doesn't make a great deal of sense.

Christendom would be a better equivalent perhaps. Ideologically it makes sense, much of the justification for conquest of the new world, as with many things, was legitimised by religious reasoning, usually along the lines of converting those poor heathens to cvilisation. Remember the missionaries went in basically alongside the conquistadors. A lot of contemporary Spanish place names (and indeed English ones) in the Americas and other european colonies bear the names of saints, and other religious references. As of course do many Arabic place names.
 
Ideologically it makes sense, much of the justification for conquest of the new world, as with many things, was legitimised by religious reasoning, usually along the lines of converting those poor heathens to cvilisation.
It's not because it have religious undertones that naming a continent as a concept makes sense.
Naming a planet "United Nations" would be an equivalent of how silly it is.

Dar al Islam and Christianity have precise meanings, and using them randomly for toponimy is just absurd.
 

Morty Vicar

Banned
It's not because it have religious undertones that naming a continent as a concept makes sense.
Naming a planet "United Nations" would be an equivalent of how silly it is.

Dar al Islam and Christianity have precise meanings, and using them randomly for toponimy is just absurd.

That's a ridiculous comparison, the United Nations has nothing to do with Christianity or Islam, to which you are objecting. Btw how is United Nations so vastly different from United States? Also, you do realise there's an actual place named Dar es Salaam? If not exactly the same name, it's the same exact concept. And it's the name of a territory outside of the Arabian Penninsula.
 
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That's a ridiculous comparison, the United Nations has nothing to do with Christianity or Islam, to which you are objecting. Btw how is United Nations so vastly different from United States? Also, you do realise there's an actual place named Dar es Salaam? If not exactly the same name, it's the same exact concept. And it's the name of a territory outside of the Arabian Penninsula.

It would be like the Americans discovering a new landmass and naming it capitalism, or the British renaming India to Westminster parliamentary system. It's not the fact that the name is based off an ideology that is strange, it's using an established term to refer to a continent that is.
 
How about Dar al Islam (House of Islam)
That refers to the entireMuslim world; their hope would be that the Americas would eventually become part of Dar al Islam, but unless the Muslims were planning to abandon all of Africa, Asia, and Europe and move all Muslims to the Americas, they would only be part of Dar al Islam, so they would need their own names to differentiate themselves from the rest.
 
That's a ridiculous comparison, the United Nations has nothing to do with Christianity or Islam, to which you are objecting.
United Nations, as a political concept is quite close to how was concieved Dar al Islam or Christianity in Late Middle Ages, as in a sense of political communauty, or rather, tentative to reach it.

Btw how is United Nations so vastly different from United States?
Because US is a political entity, not a continent (It's not because it's labelled on a map that is such)

Also, you do realise there's an actual place named Dar es Salaam?
Do you realize that Dar al Islam have a quite certain political and ideological meaning, covering all of land of Islam, not only a land in particular at the contrary of Dar es Salaam?

It's like wondering why we can't call one of Jupiter's moon Moonshine because there's already one sattellite called Moon.

If not exactly the same name, it's the same exact concept.
It's not. Dar es Salaam is a name given to paradise, as you can find towns named about biblical names in US, as in Eden, NY.
Dar al Islam covers all the regions where Islam is free to be practiced (that is, basically, where Islam is dominant) and eventually the sense of a communauty besides political divisions.

Giving the need of being protected and surrounded by other Islamic countries, to have a region being acknowledged as part of it, a far continent, surrounded only by heatens if not Christians, could never, never ever be called such.
 
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OTL, Brazil was named for Brazilwood. Brazilwood is a lovely lumber, and makes a great red dye. Theres a related tree in Asia called Sappanwood, that Arabs would be familar with, as the dye was traded west to Europe.

One possiblity would be Brazil is discovered first, and named for the tree (assuming Arabic uses the same word for the two trees).

Another possibility would be the Arabic word for red, either for the dye or for 'redmen'.

Unfortunately, I dont know Arabic....
 
al-Aqsa ('The Farthest') could be an idea, though I don't know if there's some prohibition on having a continent the same name as the third holiest mosque of Islam.

Something like 'al-Kuffar' (the infidels) could also be a good name for a more religious name for America. Or a more charitable name could be 'the Darkness' or something.

Course, it could just be named after the discoverer (like Gibraltar). 'Islands of Said' = Jaza'ir Said.

These are among the most logical suggestions. I particularly like al-Kuffar since moslems would be aghast at the pagan rituals of the MesoAmerican high civilizations and nobody would even be "of the Book".
 
OTL, Brazil was named for Brazilwood. Brazilwood is a lovely lumber, and makes a great red dye. Theres a related tree in Asia called Sappanwood, that Arabs would be familar with, as the dye was traded west to Europe.

One possiblity would be Brazil is discovered first, and named for the tree (assuming Arabic uses the same word for the two trees).

Another possibility would be the Arabic word for red, either for the dye or for 'redmen'.

Unfortunately, I dont know Arabic....

Interesting idea. It could be something like "Bilad al-Hamran" (I have not my books to check now) that should parallel "Bilad al-Sudan" (the land of the Black Ones) for Subsaharan Africa. I may elaborate when I get my hands on my Arabic grammars.
 
These are among the most logical suggestions. I particularly like al-Kuffar since moslems would be aghast at the pagan rituals of the MesoAmerican high civilizations and nobody would even be "of the Book".

Al-Kuffar is way too generic, I think. And closely similar forms were used for Austral Africa, although I don't know since when (thence, IIRC, the negative use of "Kaffir" in modern Afrikaans).
 
If named for the native peoples, the caribbean could be al-Qarib and mesoamerica could be al-Mishiqa or al-Maya (depending on who they run into first), maybe the Inca empire could be al-Inqa. Do arabs have ever used the "New X" thing? Something could end up as "New Arabia", or "New Iran", or "New Iraq".
 
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