WI: There was a Pig War

In 1859 the US and Britain both claimed a group of islands on the present day Canadian border called the San Juan Islands. Well the Hudson Bay company set up shop there with a sheep farm and was startled to find a group of American settlers arriving a month later. They got along greatish until a Pig owned by Charles Griffin, a Hudson Bay employee, was killed for eating Lyman Custer's , an American, potatoes on June 15th. Things got out of hand real fast and eventually there was 461 Americans and 14 cannons facing down 5 British warships carrying around 2,100 hundred men by the 10th of August. The Brits were ordered to storm the islands and kick out the Americans but the British Admiral decided against it.

What if he went with storming the San Juan Islands? The Americans would certainly be killed for their assured resistance.
 
Option one: What I think is far far more likely; Personal apologies and lots of reparations by England to the US. The newspapers call for blood but eventually cooler heads prevail. In time the issue becomes a footnote in history books as history carries on more or less as usual. Absolutely nobody except the governor of Vancouver wanted war and they wanted to go to war over a pig even less.

Option two:The issue of slavery is put off for a decade while the US goes about conquering Canada. The third war against the British in a century gives the US a lot of moral high ground and the population is enthusiastic. On the other side the war hurts British business interests who trade heavily with the US and is very unpopular at home. The British have an empire to draw upon but eventually as the US gears up for war and their proximity advantage to Canada the British are forced to retreat. The US civil war shows that the US in those years can put 3 million men in uniform and continue fighting with half a million dead. The British simply can't ship enough across the Atlantic to keep up. There's a huge increase in the US navy and they give the British navy a good fight.

A settlement gives the US most of Canada. (Quebec made independent perhaps?) The maritime provinces and Vancouver may stay British.

It would be interesting to see how a major war affected the issue of slavery. Would either side be willing to fight another war so soon?
 
Last edited:
The War of Custer's Pig

I didn't know anything about this, but assuming it's legit...

The ACW is probably unbutterfliable with such a late POD, although Lincoln's election is far from safe. One potential effect of The War of Custer's Pig is that maybe fewer states decide to secede in the wake of a British War. Those that do would probably find themselves recognized by the UK...

Lee, perhaps unwilling to bring himself to betray a Union bound in a bloody Northern conflict, might just wear the blue.

The first ironclad battle taking place against the RN might also be interesting...

I think someone should do this. It's a wildly original POD for an Anglo-Confederate alliance that wouldn't make my eyes glaze over.
 
Or, the Royal Navy mops the floor with Pickett et al, and takes San Francisco without too much trouble, it's defenses not being finished, and digs in elsewhere while destroying the US economy.

With no gold from California, and no muskets or modern Artillery from Britain, the US is pretty done.

All the civil war fun happens somewhat on schedule, and the Union is blown to bits. Losing the Confederacy and the whole west coast.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Option two:The issue of slavery is put off for a decade while the US goes about conquering Canada. The third war against the British in a century gives the US a lot of moral high ground and the population is enthusiastic. On the other side the war hurts British business interests who trade heavily with the US and is very unpopular at home. The British have an empire to draw upon but eventually as the US gears up for war and their proximity advantage to Canada the British are forced to retreat. The US civil war shows that the US in those years can put 3 million men in uniform and continue fighting with half a million dead. The British simply can't ship enough across the Atlantic to keep up. There's a huge increase in the US navy and they give the British navy a good fight.

A settlement gives the US most of Canada. (Quebec made independent perhaps?) The maritime provinces and Vancouver may stay British.
Why would the third war in a century be popular in the US, but unpopular in the UK? Why would only one side be hurt by loss of trade?
The likely reaction in Canada is going to be more like "They're coming back to finish the job", the war will be pretty popular in that sense. (Defence of Canada.)
As for the navy - the Royal Navy was designing HMS Warrior at this time. You can bet that they'd have built more than just two if there was a major war between Great Powers going on...
 
As stated above, the US would win an outright war as demographics and the home field advantage had shifted decisively in their favor - Canada will fall, only question is how many American lives would it take.

From there, the Brits will likely try to cut their losses, especially since prior to the Canadian Confederation, control of the region, especially the Western portion, was fairly fluid. Treaty is signed, the Brits and the Hudson Bay Company get money, the Yanks get Canada, and the war ends.

From here, we may well see a delayed Civil War, or if one is fought, much of the Confederate officer class may fight for the Union they'd just fought and defended. I certainly wouldn't expect the upper South to secede here. More than likely, gradual emancipation of the slaves with financial restitution to the slave owners is passed, maybe after a brief rebellion in the deep south quickly put down by US troops.
 
We'll the british captain had no orders to storm anywhere. No one is in position to give him orders this side of London.

His actual comment was two great nations do not go to war over a pig.

And when everyone's government got involved they settled it in about 10'seconds.
 
As stated above, the US would win an outright war as demographics and the home field advantage had shifted decisively in their favor - Canada will fall, only question is how many American lives would it take.

From there, the Brits will likely try to cut their losses, especially since prior to the Canadian Confederation, control of the region, especially the Western portion, was fairly fluid. Treaty is signed, the Brits and the Hudson Bay Company get money, the Yanks get Canada, and the war ends.

From here, we may well see a delayed Civil War, or if one is fought, much of the Confederate officer class may fight for the Union they'd just fought and defended. I certainly wouldn't expect the upper South to secede here. More than likely, gradual emancipation of the slaves with financial restitution to the slave owners is passed, maybe after a brief rebellion in the deep south quickly put down by US troops.

Thus speaks Napoleon or Hitler invading Russia. Or to paraphrase Mr.T - I pity the fool that invades Canada in Winter...
 

Dorozhand

Banned
Three problems: logistics, logistics and logistics.

And what of it? Any logistical problems the US has, the British have more. The US can field millions of men, is somewhat enthusiastic about fighting and is in an economically decent position to do so. The British will not be enthusiastic, are not in an economic position to do so, and have to ferry their forces across the Atlantic. You can bet that the east coast is going to get fortified to the teeth in anticipation of an 1812 style invasion, so the war will have to take place in the maritimes, Quebec, and British Columbia (also considering the fact that the US navy is a force to be reckoned with now). I don't see the British winning this one. Not in 1859, and not without a continental ally in either a powerful Mexico or a CSA equivalent.
 
If things went to hell in the San Juan Islands you can bet that Palmerston, a very anti-US PM, is going to want war, though whether his cabinet would allow it is another question.

But in any case, I think the predictions of inevitable US victory are overstated. The US Army didn't exactly cover itself in glory during the OTL ACW, and the British had gained valuable experience in the Crimean War - especially in the field of storming fortresses from the sea (Bomarsund, Sveaborg, Azov Campaigns).

I think this is the most likely case:

1) War breaks out and Canada is vulnerable. UK speeds up military reforms and ships whatever can be spared for the 4,000-strong Canada Garrison, including Crimea veterans and troops fresh from fighting the Indian Mutiny. Naval reserves are properly activated and trained (following the Crimean experience). Army innovations such as short-service and localized recruiting will increase the manpower pool of the UK in the near-future, but these will take time to train. Admiralty quickly puts in large orders for gunboats and mortar vessels, supplementing their already-sizeable force.

2) Like the Fenian Raids OTL, the USA operates under the assumption that the Irish-Canadians will support them in an invasion. As such, they lead spirited but hasty attacks into Canada, and are easily handled by local forces. Worse still, Northerners make premature moves about making Canada a 'free state', which paralyzes Congress and critical time is lost.

3) Palmerston resolves to punish the US for daring to provoke the UK. A plan to annex Oregon country is formed, feelers extended to Mexico for the reconquest of the Southwest, and the UK contacts slave-states concerned about the effects of Canadian accession to their power.

4) Militarily, the British plan is similar to that practiced in Russia, and also to the one situation they have planned for in detail (which is capturing Cherbourg in France): rule the seas, capture strategic points, and bombard every US port into submission. This inflicts massive damage on the US without having to face their 'massive' armies (though the US wouldn't be able to field more than 50,000 for the critical first phase of the war, certainly not the hundreds thousands they did in the 'total war' of the ACW).

5) Winter 1859 passes and the US is ready to try again. The 1860 Election is imminent and the (newly-united) Democrats want victories to keep Lincoln out. So the US invades Canada again under Winfield Scott. Unfortunately for Winfield, he fights battles in the Napoleonic style - but the British have learnt from the Russians and are digging trenches everywhere to stop the American advance. US attacks stall and where they succeed, it's with massive casualties. Buchanan desperately needs somebody with experience of this new way of fighting, somebody who has seen the Crimean War firsthand. And this person is... George B McClellan.

6) On the seas, the US rightly sees the Russian strategy of keeping its ships in Sevastopol as disastrous, but they can't engage the British fleet one-on-one. The US Navy therefore disperses and disrupts British shipping: it is an effective tactic, but it means they are not around when the British Navy shows up. No matter - the US expects their Third System Forts to hold out, slow to recognize that the British have learnt much about attacking coastal forts during the Crimean War (since the contemporary focus was on Crimea, not the Baltic).

7) The British fleet arrives and promptly begins work. Not wanting a long war, the First Sea Lord (Lord Dundas, a veteran of fort-storming ops in China and in the Baltic) decides on knockout blows to the US' major cities. Boston becomes the first city to experience the wrath of the British fleet as a combination of gunboats, mortar boats, 10+ battleships and naval landings assault the unfinished Fort Warren and capture it within days, making even shorter work of the older Winthrop and Independence. With Boston now defenceless the British now bombard the city (like at Odessa during Crimean War) and kill large numbers of people, sparking furious yet impotent national outrage.

8) Newport, RI is next, the British indicating that New York will burn without peace. 18th Century Fort Adams stands no chance and another American city is blasted. Then Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn, Fort Richmond in Staten Island, and Fort Schuyler in the Bronx are levelled, the British causing as much damage as possible to the region. New York City itself is probably too geographically unfavorable for naval operations, so the British sink blockships in the East and Hudson Rivers. In an instant, trade flows to the US' commerce capital fall to a trickle. Blockships sunk at the mouth of the Delaware (Philadelphia) produce a similar effect.

9) Canada continues to hold out because McClellan is hardly going to be even more decisive than OTL. In any case, the British decide to repeat 1812, reducing Fort Monroe at the mouth of the Chesapeake and sailing upwards with an elite army of soldiers. If the US has any sense, it would sue for peace now. If it doesn't... Baltimore will burn, followed by Washington soon after.

10) The UK continues to sail up and down the coast, bombarding all major cities with the US almost powerless to do anything about it, save for the occasional steamship sortie which might achieve limited, but ultimately irrelevant success. Canada remains a quagmire for American armies, with each successful advance stalling before another line of trenches.

11) War exhaustion mounts, ruining Democratic chances for re-election; Lincoln is now President. Bad for the USA as this means the South will now secede and make their own peace with the UK, leaving the Union to face the British with the majority of its resources gone. The British dictate terms.
 
Last edited:

+1

Although I feel this is a little Brit-Wank as every single action they took here succeeded, this is pretty much how the war will go. The US simply have nothing to fight with in 1859 bar the US Navy which can choose either a proactive commerce raiding role leading to it's eventual destruction or fleet-in-being leading to it's probably destruction and no damage.

The British are coming into this war off the back of two victories in Crimea and in India both of which have taught the Army a number of serious lessons about both regular and irregular warfare over different types of terrain and with integrated land and naval forces. The US have simply no real experience of the kind of modern warfare which Britain are capable of and will be trounced. IF the war continues for a lengthy period of time (it won't because of the damage to American Commerce as well as internal disquiet at fighting with one of the US's largest trading partners), then maybe the US will eventually put a large army into the field and learn to fight and overwhelm the dug-in Canadian/British troops.

But I doubt it, attacking Canada is HARD as the Americans learned in 1812 where they were repeatedly out-manuevered and outfought over difficult terrain by highly motivated provincial militias, indian irregulars and a handful of British Army Regulars. In 1859 the same situation occurs except that Britain isn't distracted by fighting a real war on the European Continent against a superpower. Instead Britain can throw troops and ships (well trained troops and crews too) at a popular defensive war in it's colonies. I wouldn't be suprised if the peace treaties were designed with punitive measures in place to compensate Britain and punish the US for 'starting the war'.
 
That scenario however, involves most EVERYTHING going right for the British - which even by your Crimean War example, is CLEARLY not going to be the case. Charge of the Light Brigade anyone?

Plus, in Crimea, they had allies, were fighting a relatively nearby foe, and a deeply popular war at home against a traditional foe fighting all of Europe. Here, they're fighting a major trading partner, half the world away, when the other side has clear moral and tactical advantages, they will go in without allies, all because an officer in British Columbia acted without orders.

More than likely, it ends with negotiations between London and Washington - probably concessions in Western Canada, America getting that 54-40 at last, the area not being part of Canada and mostly settled by Americans at this point anyway. London applauds itself on avoiding a war, Washington applauds itself on getting concessions, and both sides generally celebrate avoiding a war over a pig.
 
Talking about allies, would France join in on the action at all?..or any of the other powers?

Napoleon the III could use this as a excuse to regain some power in the carribean, mabye a earlier intervention in Mexico, or simply standing by his "Ally" Britain?

Could any of the other powers try to get in on the action in other theatres...mabye Russia tries to meddle in India again whilst the RN and RA are more distracted with the USA?
 
That scenario however, involves most EVERYTHING going right for the British - which even by your Crimean War example, is CLEARLY not going to be the case. Charge of the Light Brigade anyone?

Sevastopol still fell though, and the Russian Navy hid in port. Much like the USN will in this scenario. Certainly the Americans will win some tactical victories, but the war will go pretty much as outlined. It plays to all of Britain's strengths, and none of the US ones. The RN will take out all the coastal forts and bomb or take the coastal cities.It is just going to happen OTL how many coastal fortifications held out in the US civil war against the less experienced and equipped USN a few years later? Not many that i recall. Damn the torpedoes and all that.

Plus, in Crimea, they had allies, were fighting a relatively nearby foe, and a deeply popular war at home against a traditional foe fighting all of Europe. Here, they're fighting a major trading partner, half the world away, when the other side has clear moral and tactical advantages, they will go in without allies, all because an officer in British Columbia acted without orders.

It is 3900 NM from Portsmouth to Sevastapol, 3400 NM From Portsmouth to Boston. It is closer, and Britain has major naval bases close by. Russia's Army in the Crimean war was 700,000 men, the US army at the start of this one would be what? 16k in regulars? Britain doesn't need any allies. They put 250,000 men into the Crimea by themselves.

More than likely, it ends with negotiations between London and Washington - probably concessions in Western Canada, America getting that 54-40 at last, the area not being part of Canada and mostly settled by Americans at this point anyway. London applauds itself on avoiding a war, Washington applauds itself on getting concessions, and both sides generally celebrate avoiding a war over a pig.

Wishful thinking. Much as a war between Britain and the US in 1959 was only going to go one way, a war in 1859 was going in the reverse direction.
And Britain at this time was as arrogant about it's power as America is now. Once shots are fired they are not backing down or conceding anything unless made to, and the US can't make them.
 
Top