No end to Ice Age
- Thread starter Evil Opus
- Start date
Flocculencio
Donor
Leej said:
Yeah- technically we're still in an Ice Age...after all we've got ice caps on both poles which is pretty unusual.
I think humans could still have achieved advanced civilisation- it would just be in a narrower habitable band.
The last 10 000 years have enjoyed unusually stable climate, in historical terms. And it did not take long from the start of the stable climate untill agricultural societys started popping up.
The human species existed for perhaps 150 000 years before that with no trace of civilization. Ice age or not, I think the stability that permitted agriculture was the trigger event.
The human species existed for perhaps 150 000 years before that with no trace of civilization. Ice age or not, I think the stability that permitted agriculture was the trigger event.
NapoleonXIV
Banned
We are, as far as we can tell, in the fourth Interglacial period of the ongoing Ice age that began about 40 million years ago with the growth of the Antarctic Ice sheet.
By no means should the rigors of the last period of major continental glaciation be seen as wiping out humanity, though the consequences of the Mt Toba eruption combined with glaciation might have done so.
I agree with Umbral, it was the stablilty of climate that generated civilization. For all we know, harsher winters might have accelerated mankind's rise, though it would almost certainly be from a smaller area at first.
Some present theories, in fact, point to mankind having a much easier time of it in the last maximally glaciated period. According to these, it was the drying out of the pleasant grassland plains on the Sahara as the European sheets retreated which drove the easy living nomads who hunted there east into the also shrinking Nile valley; where they then had to learn irrigation, and its necessarily attendant civilized values, or die.
By no means should the rigors of the last period of major continental glaciation be seen as wiping out humanity, though the consequences of the Mt Toba eruption combined with glaciation might have done so.
I agree with Umbral, it was the stablilty of climate that generated civilization. For all we know, harsher winters might have accelerated mankind's rise, though it would almost certainly be from a smaller area at first.
Some present theories, in fact, point to mankind having a much easier time of it in the last maximally glaciated period. According to these, it was the drying out of the pleasant grassland plains on the Sahara as the European sheets retreated which drove the easy living nomads who hunted there east into the also shrinking Nile valley; where they then had to learn irrigation, and its necessarily attendant civilized values, or die.
The beginnings of agriculture in the Middle East around 20,000-5000 BC coincided with the end of the last ice age. Probably agriculture became easier at this time because of a more congenial climate.
But even during an ice age, the whole world is not covered in ice. There would be no reason for agriculture not to develop in Africa or Central America. Agriculture would just develop a few thousand years later than in OTL, it would be less widespread and consequently it would be less efficient (less development and swapping of domesticated plants and animals). I expect in the present day there would be Iron Age civilisations in Africa, India and SE Asia (there would be a lot more land in SE Asia), maybe trading with each other by sea.
In the New World, there would be no humans. Although there would be a land bridge between Siberia and Alaska, it would be too cold for anyone to cross. All the prehistoric animals in the Americas (sabre-toothed tigers etc.) would still be there.
I wonder whether there would be surviving prehistoric creatures like Mammoths in the Old World? Some people think they were killed off by the end of the Ice Age, and some people think they were killed off by stone age hunters.
But even during an ice age, the whole world is not covered in ice. There would be no reason for agriculture not to develop in Africa or Central America. Agriculture would just develop a few thousand years later than in OTL, it would be less widespread and consequently it would be less efficient (less development and swapping of domesticated plants and animals). I expect in the present day there would be Iron Age civilisations in Africa, India and SE Asia (there would be a lot more land in SE Asia), maybe trading with each other by sea.
In the New World, there would be no humans. Although there would be a land bridge between Siberia and Alaska, it would be too cold for anyone to cross. All the prehistoric animals in the Americas (sabre-toothed tigers etc.) would still be there.
I wonder whether there would be surviving prehistoric creatures like Mammoths in the Old World? Some people think they were killed off by the end of the Ice Age, and some people think they were killed off by stone age hunters.
Leej said:
In OTL there was something called the "great leap forward" that occurred around 40,000 BC, before the end of the last ice age. There was a sudden increase in the sophistication of stone-age technology and culture. Mankind had clearly started on the path of sustained technological progress, even before agriculture and before the end of the ice age. That's why I think progress would continue, even if there was no interglacial period.
Africa, India, and South America would all be powerhouses.
Neanderthals-human relations provide a very interesting conundrum.
How would they handle eachother?
Neanderthals-human relations provide a very interesting conundrum.
How would they handle eachother?
Shope
Banned
If the last ice age hadn't ended, the Mediturranean Sea would be dry land surrounding a relativeley small freshwater lake, or sink (fed by the Nile); the Black Sea would also still be freshwater.
Alaska and Kamchatka probably would still have a land bridge as well.
Cooperative agriculture might not have developed at all because the flooding of the Med and the Persian Gulf wouldn't've forced people into smaller areas.
There would be no English language. The Germanic people, if still in existence, would be somewhere in Siberia. The Celts wouldn't've been able to flow into Western Europe and might've gone into (and through) the Caucasus instead.
We're talking about sea levels over 100 feet lower than today and an ice sheet still covering Scandinavia and the British Isles.
Alaska and Kamchatka probably would still have a land bridge as well.
Cooperative agriculture might not have developed at all because the flooding of the Med and the Persian Gulf wouldn't've forced people into smaller areas.
There would be no English language. The Germanic people, if still in existence, would be somewhere in Siberia. The Celts wouldn't've been able to flow into Western Europe and might've gone into (and through) the Caucasus instead.
We're talking about sea levels over 100 feet lower than today and an ice sheet still covering Scandinavia and the British Isles.