AHC: African colony in Europe
- Thread starter Hawkeye
- Start date
Have some great Ottoman civil war, and have the the victor be Egyptian, and focus the Empire on Egypt, but retain some Balkan territory. Maybe Muhammad Ali could do this?
Egypt occupied (or came close to occupying - can't quite recall) parts of Greece during Muhammad Ali's day, so that could totally work.
I dont think any of then'Barbary' states ect... were strong enough to get a lodgement in Italy, Sicily, Sardinia, or Iberia.
The best way to do this is probably to continue the Almohad Caliphate or states like it, North African Berber states that nonetheless held southern Spain. This way the challenge is in keeping them from assimilating into the Andalusian population and becoming a southern spanish state occupying North Africa.
That's a post-1700 POD. Hell, if we allowed POD's from any date, then Carthaginian colonies in Spain would fulfill it 1-2-3. At this point, I think French Malta being a part of their Algerian departments is the easiest way to fulfill this one. Or maybe Egypt can take Cyprus, I dunno...
In both cases, wouldn't they be more Asian in origin since the Caliphate was founded by Arabs and Carthage founded by Phoneciains? The latter would only be considered Asian for its early existance.
With a POD after 1700 we can forget about any civilization sub Shara, as none of them were advanced and strong enough to chalange any European country.
So we have to look at North Africa. Even that's hard, as most of Western and Northern Europe was strong enough to be able to beat a North African invasion (besides that an invasion is different from colonization). Anyway, I think we must look at either some Mediterranean islands or the Balkan. Actualy now that I think about it, the Balkan is probably not a good place either, as they probably would be relatively easy be recaptured either by the Ottoman Empire or some European force.
I think the best North Africa can do is conquer Malta (and if the manage to keep it, Malta would probably be considered African), Cyprus (which has the same problem as Malta that it can easily be considered not part of Europe), Crete or some other smaller island that are far enough (or unimportant enough) from major European players.
If you realy want to have Africa colonise Europe, you need a much earlier POD and even in that case it will probably be limited to the mediterranean, as the rest of Europe is not interesting enough to colonize.
So we have to look at North Africa. Even that's hard, as most of Western and Northern Europe was strong enough to be able to beat a North African invasion (besides that an invasion is different from colonization). Anyway, I think we must look at either some Mediterranean islands or the Balkan. Actualy now that I think about it, the Balkan is probably not a good place either, as they probably would be relatively easy be recaptured either by the Ottoman Empire or some European force.
I think the best North Africa can do is conquer Malta (and if the manage to keep it, Malta would probably be considered African), Cyprus (which has the same problem as Malta that it can easily be considered not part of Europe), Crete or some other smaller island that are far enough (or unimportant enough) from major European players.
If you realy want to have Africa colonise Europe, you need a much earlier POD and even in that case it will probably be limited to the mediterranean, as the rest of Europe is not interesting enough to colonize.
Tonally, perhaps, but he's not horribly off; to the best of my knowledge, the most vibrant and advanced Sub-Saharan civilizations were in West Africa, and they suffered terribly due to the Slave Trade, which is in full swing by 1700. Plus, they're far enough away from Europe that they wouldn't be able to colonize anything without a serious navy - guess who'd be leery about that? It's not necessary to be a serious power in 1700, but go too far beyond that date and industrialization becomes important, too, and that brings the challenge of finding coal and iron, narrowing the potential field even more.
I think so, since Crete is OTL EU territory. We can't be too picky or this is just impossible.
This is a really weird idea, but let's just go with it...
In 1627 Barbary pirates raided the island of Heimay, off Iceland, taking many captives. What if an enterprising corsair established a base on Heimay or even Iceland itself, as a stopping-off point for slaves captured in Scotland, Scandinavia and Ireland. The main purpose of Barbary slave-taking was twofold: skilled labour and ransoms. The slaves would work their crafts until they or their relatives paid their ransoms. Thus Heimay would have a relatively stable slave population, as they had nowhere to run to, and many of them would be able to find work.
Assuming no foreign intervention, which is actually pretty reasonable given how remote Iceland is/was, this might develop into a somewhat prosperous Islamic state in the North Atlantic. Not a great power, and it would probably be taken by the British or the Scandinavians at some point or another, but nevertheless, an African colony in Europe.
In 1627 Barbary pirates raided the island of Heimay, off Iceland, taking many captives. What if an enterprising corsair established a base on Heimay or even Iceland itself, as a stopping-off point for slaves captured in Scotland, Scandinavia and Ireland. The main purpose of Barbary slave-taking was twofold: skilled labour and ransoms. The slaves would work their crafts until they or their relatives paid their ransoms. Thus Heimay would have a relatively stable slave population, as they had nowhere to run to, and many of them would be able to find work.
Assuming no foreign intervention, which is actually pretty reasonable given how remote Iceland is/was, this might develop into a somewhat prosperous Islamic state in the North Atlantic. Not a great power, and it would probably be taken by the British or the Scandinavians at some point or another, but nevertheless, an African colony in Europe.
Iceland is Danish. The Danes wouldn't tolerate their territory being appropriated that way (and are certainly strong enough to expel a handful of Berber pirates almost instantly, especially since no one else would want Iceland as a pirate base).
Besides, Iceland is too remote to attract a permanent Berber settlement. If you can sail the slaves to Iceland, you can just as easily sail them back to the Barbary Coast, where they are a lot more secure and can do more useful work, so it doesn't make sense as a transhipment point either.