Galileo discovers Neptune?

OTL, Neptune was not recognised to be a planet until it was found to be perturbing Uranus' orbit in 1846, but it had been observed and noted on star charts before, first in December 1612 and January 1613 by Galileo Galilei. In July 2009, it was discovered that Galileo may have, in fact, recognised that what he took for a star had moved slightly. Unfortunately, Neptune had just begun its yearly period of retrograde motion across the sky, and consequently was nearly stationary against the background stars; as a result of this, he never looked for it again or realised that he'd found a new planet, presumably dismissing it as an optical aberration or atmospheric effect, or as a floater or other aberration inside his eyes.

But what if Galileo had happened to choose a different time of the year to observe that particular patch of sky? What if he'd seen Neptune while it was in strong prograde motion, and subsequently been interested enough to make more observations and chart the planet's track across the sky? What would be the effects of the eighth planet being discovered 233 years before OTL, and before planet #7 to boot? Would Neptune have shown observable (with the equipment of the time) discrepancies in its orbit that would lead to the rapid discovery of Uranus, or would the big gap between Saturn and the new blue planet have itself been enough to raise astronomers' suspicions and get them to look for the planet in between? Might the discovery of how vigilant one needs to be to keep from missing a planet, especially a slow-moving one like Neptune, itself lead to the earlier discovery of Uranus? Or might Uranus remain undiscovered until a century or two later, at which time astronomers wind up with egg on their faces trying to explain how they caught the dim, slow-moving planet far from Earth and the Sun, yet missed the bigger, brighter, faster, and closer planet? Would Neptune's much earlier discovery lead to astronomy progressing significantly faster than OTL in an attempt to find any more planets, pulling the other sciences along with it? Would it even be named Neptune ITTL? It might still have its OTL name, since it's still deep, deep blue, inevitably leading someone to thoughts of the sea, which inspired its OTL naming after the Roman sea god, and since there'll still be the precedent of naming planets after Roman gods, and combining the two leads one to the name of the Roman sea god, who just so happens to be called Neptune, but might the blueness instead lead some to think of the sky, of sweet, ripe, berries, or of their lover's eyes, and might the astronomers of the 1600s think "the Romans may have named the planets after their pagan gods, but we're Christians!" and name the newly discovered planet or two after prominent Christian figures, holy places, their home nations, or prominent political patrons instead? The possibilities are endless!
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
I've often thought about this. I doubt it would lead to an early discovery of Uranus, since the mathematics and the understanding of gravitational physics would not be advanced enough for some time. In fact, Neptune probably wouldn't have even been recognized as a planet even had Galileo realized that there was something strange about it. The instruments available were far too primitive to allow for the calculations necessary to prove that the object orbited the Sun and the Copernican theory was still not widely accepted anyway. Most likely, it would have been seen as some sort of astronomical freak, but this would have serious philosophical consequences since it would be yet another bit of evidence (along with sunspots, the craters on the Moon, ect.) that the heavens were not perfect.
 
The information that could have been discerned about Naptune's orbit using the knowledge of the time would have been the the period of the orbit and the orbital velocity. Kepler's Laws of Planetary Motion had been established at around this time, and can give these values if one knows the distance to the planet (which could have been determined through parallax, the shift in the angle at which the object appears when viewed from different vantage points). However, Newton's law of universal gravitation was not published until 1687 (along with the laws of motion and forces from which it was derived), so any discrepancies in Neptune's orbit as a result of Uranus' gravity would not have been understood. However, I can imagine that either Kepler or Galileo might have found said discrepancies as reason to investigate further, which could lead to earlier development of what would later be known as Newton's laws. As you suggested, they may have found the gap between Saturn and Neptune to be reason enough to surmise that another planet might exist in between them. I think that if Galileo had discovered Neptune, then people would have started looking for Uranus at least as soon as someone developed the law of universal gravitation, because such a law, coupled with Kepler's laws, could indicate that there was a "missing planet" in the gap.

As for the name, I'm not entirely sure what would have happened. Galileo probably wouldn't have sprung for "Neptune," if only because he was already in a dicey situation with the Church and wouldn't want to chance pissing them off in any way. Other astronomers might have been more willing to take a risk in that regard, but there is still a definite worry that someone would have named it after the pope or a saint or something of the sort, and then we'd all have to live with that.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
The information that could have been discerned about Naptune's orbit using the knowledge of the time would have been the the period of the orbit and the orbital velocity. Kepler's Laws of Planetary Motion had been established at around this time, and can give these values if one knows the distance to the planet (which could have been determined through parallax, the shift in the angle at which the object appears when viewed from different vantage points).

I doubt the telescopes available would have been powerful enough to detect the parallax.
 
The only reason he saw neptune was that it was behind Jupiter, whose moons he was observing. So he wouldnt have seen it in any other part of the sky, 'cause he wasnt stuying those other parts of the sky in that kind of detail.

If he did twig to the fact that the inconstant stars were the same object, he would have KNOWN it was a planet, as planets were the only objects in the celestial sphere that moved, hence the name. (The Greek word planetes (sp?) Means something like wanderers. Ha, you say, what about the Moon and comets, they move. Yes, but in the Ptolemaic system, the Moon WAS a planet; and comets were not necessarily thought to be in the celestial spheres. Some believed them to be atmospheric phenomena.)

Trying to find a pretty faint object when all you know is the general area and that it's NOT going to be where you saw it last, is tough.

Remember that Galileo's telescope was pretty small, and rather crude by modern standards, and 'humph... I must have misssed something/seen something that wasnt really there' is a much more likely hypothesis than 'ooo... I just overturned astronomy. Again. Oh, and, by the way, I cant find the thing any more, anyway...'

Still, he WAS watching that area of the sky intently. It would have been well within the bounds of possibility that he could have split his observing time between the Galilean moons of Jupiter and this enigmatic object, until he could get some other astronomer to verify his observations.

OT3H, he would have to observe the thing constantly for some considerable time to figure out where to find it later, especially since he didnt have any good theoretical basis to predict the path from.
 
I doubt the telescopes available would have been powerful enough to detect the parallax.

I did a bit of calculation and found that Neptune's parallax, as viewed from either side of earth's orbit, should've been easily detectable by, well...anything. Only if I'm right of course, which I'm not sure that I am. But then, you have to consider things like the actual motion of Neptune making it harder to actually determine the parallax. And I also calculated parallax as seen from either side of Earth's orbit, and that whole idea is dependent on people understanding that Earth did orbit the sun, which is a problem for this time period. Bottom line: I dunno.
 
I did a bit of calculation and found that Neptune's parallax, as viewed from either side of earth's orbit, should've been easily detectable by, well...anything. Only if I'm right of course, which I'm not sure that I am. But then, you have to consider things like the actual motion of Neptune making it harder to actually determine the parallax. And I also calculated parallax as seen from either side of Earth's orbit, and that whole idea is dependent on people understanding that Earth did orbit the sun, which is a problem for this time period. Bottom line: I dunno.

Would Neptune's parallax have been detectable from two points on the Earth close enough to each other to allow enough simultaneity of the observations to get a fairly accurate calculation parallax?
 
Would Neptune's parallax have been detectable from two points on the Earth close enough to each other to allow enough simultaneity of the observations to get a fairly accurate calculation parallax?

Hard to say. Travel and communication are the real problem here. In modern times, it wouldn't be a huge challenge to send someone to the opposite side of the planet and make measurements of the position of a celestial body at the same approximate time. But without satellite communications, airplanes, or a mostly mapped-out planet, this becomes difficult. I'm not sure whether or not you could get a good measurement of the parallax just observing from two locations in Europe or one in Europe and another in North America. Really, it's a lot less work to get to the other side of Earth's orbit than to the other side of the earth, in a sense.

I think you could still have Uranus discovered early in the way that you describe as long as the heliocentric model becomes dominant by the end of the 17th century.
 
Top