Alternate 60s.JFK alive,no Vietnam,no Beatles.

[lounge60]

All Vietnam become communist in 1954.No South-North Vietnam,no Vietcong,no War in 60s.John F. Kennedy is not killed in Dallas,and is reelect in 1964.In G.B. The National Service is not abolished untill late 60s.Young people as John Lennon,Paul Mccarthy,Mick Jagger go to the army and lost the moment,the occasion of theirs life.No Beatles,no Rolling Stones,no The Who.the most important British rockstars in 1965 are Cliff Richard ,and the Shadows (in USA "the king" is Elvis).In mid-late 60s nothing "British invasion",nothing controculture,nothing "Hippies",but nothing war in Vietnam too.

[Anaxagoras]

Just as long as we still have the Sex Pistols and all the assorted Madchester bands, I'll be happy.

[Xen]

Originally Posted by Anaxagoras

Just as long as we still have the Sex Pistols and all the assorted Madchester bands, I'll be happy.

Without the Beatles and Stones, youre not going to have your sex pistols or punk rock, instead Rock N Roll would be reduced to songs like "Does your chewing gum lose its flavor"

[Blaine Hess]

Originally Posted by Anaxagoras

Just as long as we still have the Sex Pistols and all the assorted Madchester bands, I'll be happy.

SEX PISTOLS ROCK!!!!!

[Blaine Hess]

SID ROCKS!!!

[kilngirl]

Originally Posted by lounge60

All Vietnam become communist in 1954.No South-North Vietnam,no Vietcong,no War in 60s.John F. Kennedy is not killed in Dallas,and is reelect in 1964.In G.B. The National Service is not abolished untill late 60s.Young people as John Lennon,Paul Mccarthy,Mick Jagger go to the army and lost the moment,the occasion of theirs life.No Beatles,no Rolling Stones,no The Who.the most important British rockstars in 1965 are Cliff Richard ,and the Shadows (in USA "the king" is Elvis).In mid-late 60s nothing "British invasion",nothing controculture,nothing "Hippies",but nothing war in Vietnam too.

I'd go for no Vietman.
BUT NO BEATLES, ROLLING STONES OR WHO!!!!! How could you think such a thing!

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Consider that there would still be a counter-culture but it would certainly be based along different lines and thoughts than OTL:

A) Motown- Consider that Motown music, under Barry Gordy was becoming a part of the American mainstream starting in 1961, with the rise of artists like "Little Stevie Wonder", the Supremes, James Brown, et al. Just consider that with the nascent African-American Civil Rights Movement, by 1964, the musical movement was moving out of African-American neighborhoods into the white suburban neighborhoods....

B) Beach Boys- While it seems pretty "white-wash" today, consider that the Beach Boys, Annette Funicello, and Elvis Presley helped to popularize the lifestyle of Hawaii and hte California shorelines. Just consider that places like Pacifica, CA; Venice Beach, CA and Santa Cruz, CA became major sites for surfers because of the surfer craze of the 1960s....

C) Beatniks- Consider that the "Beatnik" Movement was started in 1956, popularized by 1957, and was fully thriving in San Francisco and New York, with writers like Allen Ginsberg, Timothy Leary, and others, experimenting in countercultural ideas...

[Ghost 88]

Originally Posted by Mr_ Bondoc

Consider that there would still be a counter-culture but it would certainly be based along different lines and thoughts than OTL:

A) Motown- Consider that Motown music, under Barry Gordy was becoming a part of the American mainstream starting in 1961, with the rise of artists like "Little Stevie Wonder", the Supremes, James Brown, et al. Just consider that with the nascent African-American Civil Rights Movement, by 1964, the musical movement was moving out of African-American neighborhoods into the white suburban neighborhoods....

B) Beach Boys- While it seems pretty "white-wash" today, consider that the Beach Boys, Annette Funicello, and Elvis Presley helped to popularize the lifestyle of Hawaii and hte California shorelines. Just consider that places like Pacifica, CA; Venice Beach, CA and Santa Cruz, CA became major sites for surfers because of the surfer craze of the 1960s....

C) Beatniks- Consider that the "Beatnik" Movement was started in 1956, popularized by 1957, and was fully thriving in San Francisco and New York, with writers like Allen Ginsberg, Timothy Leary, and others, experimenting in countercultural ideas...

Add in Buddy Holly who's style the Beatles copied

[Xen]

Originally Posted by Ghost 88

Add in Buddy Holly who's style the Beatles copied

They didnt exactly copy Buddy Holly, they were influenced by him among others, but the Beatles sound is unique, as is Buddy Holly's. The Beatles sound can be said to be a mesh of several different artists. Certainly Buddy Holly and the Crickets were influential on the group for its name.

[lounge60]

Originally Posted by Mr_ Bondoc

Consider that there would still be a counter-culture but it would certainly be based along different lines and thoughts than OTL:

A) Motown- Consider that Motown music, under Barry Gordy was becoming a part of the American mainstream starting in 1961, with the rise of artists like "Little Stevie Wonder", the Supremes, James Brown, et al. Just consider that with the nascent African-American Civil Rights Movement, by 1964, the musical movement was moving out of African-American neighborhoods into the white suburban neighborhoods....

B) Beach Boys- While it seems pretty "white-wash" today, consider that the Beach Boys, Annette Funicello, and Elvis Presley helped to popularize the lifestyle of Hawaii and hte California shorelines. Just consider that places like Pacifica, CA; Venice Beach, CA and Santa Cruz, CA became major sites for surfers because of the surfer craze of the 1960s....

C) Beatniks- Consider that the "Beatnik" Movement was started in 1956, popularized by 1957, and was fully thriving in San Francisco and New York, with writers like Allen Ginsberg, Timothy Leary, and others, experimenting in countercultural ideas...

Beach Boys,Annette Funnicello,Elvis,Frankie Avalon are not "counter culture".Is a simple evolution of late 50s style.Without Vietnam,"British invasion",and JFK murder shock American and European society in mid-late 60s/early 70s are like in 1958-63.

[luakel]

Ah, IMO all this does is make the 70's alot more wild. Counterculture and all that jazz was gonna happen anyway.