AHC: Musicracy

Green Painting · Feb 7, 2014

In many classic civilization, music is seen has been an important art for the aristocrats to master, alongside with martial arts, debate, poetry, archery and horsemanship etc. But unlike the rest, music seems never been the way to political power.

The challenge, should you choose to take it, is to have skills in Music as a part of the criteria for politician selection/election, or even the main criteria. It can happen in an aristocratic or non-aristocratic society.

fermosquera69 · Feb 7, 2014

Well... maybe having the right bard at your meetings could help, or moving lyrics and an astounding voice, which could make the candidates take lessons on vocal technique, singing and composition...

Well, my opinion.

Vinland · Feb 7, 2014

If I recall, the Chinese Imperial Examinations required to enter a government/civil service position did test artistic ability, including music and poetry I believe. However, I can't see musical talent ever being seen as "essential" as a means to attain political power. It might indicate refinement and possibly advance one's social status in an aristocracy, but I doubt it could ever be as useful as genuine political, military, or financial aptitude.

fermosquera69 · Feb 7, 2014

Vinland said:
If I recall, the Chinese Imperial Examinations required to enter a government/civil service position did test artistic ability, including music and poetry I believe. However, I can't see musical talent ever being seen as "essential" as a means to attain political power. It might indicate refinement and possibly advance one's social status in an aristocracy, but I doubt it could ever be as useful as genuine political, military, or financial aptitude.

Maybe the chinese knew that Music improves Mathematical thinking... well, that's what's passing through my head right now.

Jonathan Edelstein · Feb 7, 2014

See sections 53 and 63-64 of D'Annunzio's Constitution of Fiume.

Fabius Maximus · Feb 7, 2014

Maybe some kind of theocracy in which priests are also bards as well as political leaders...?

Sevarics · Feb 7, 2014

I think you'd need a requirement that political debates must be sung in order for that to happen

TFSmith121 · Feb 7, 2014

Finally, a path to political power for Andrew Lloyd Webber!

Heck, Tolkien suggested the gods singing the universe into existence.

Maybe set it in his universe.

Best,

Vulgarian · Feb 7, 2014

fermosquera69 said:
Maybe the chinese knew that Music improves Mathematical thinking... well, that's what's passing through my head right now.

I'm thinking a city state founded on an imitation of Plato's Republic could well proceed along these lines, with the aritocratic philosophers required to show mastery in music as well as mathematics.

Perhaps have a group of Greek Exiles sail out to the canary islands and attempt to found a society along the lines of the Republic.

Uhura's Mazda · Feb 7, 2014

Vulgarian said:
I'm thinking a city state founded on an imitation of Plato's Republic could well proceed along these lines, with the aritocratic philosophers required to show mastery in music as well as mathematics.

Perhaps have a group of Greek Exiles sail out to the canary islands and attempt to found a society along the lines of the Republic.

So, turn Atlantis into a true story? That would have massive effects on European culture if they found actual proof of Atlantis during the Enlightenment, and if they discovered evidence of 'musicracy' then the First French Republic and the USA might have incorporated it into their Consitutions!

Dom Pedro III · Feb 10, 2014

I would think a preliterate society would be a good place to start for this. Songs were an important way for storing social knowledge in these societies. This could give rise to a political class where song composition might become more valued than oratory. This would be particularly true if music is considered to have ritual power. Great musicians might be viewed as having divine favor.

Of course, given that preliterate societies did use music as both a mnemonic technology and as a powerful ritual tool, the lack of "musicracies" suggests that they're extremely improbable. Any society that still hasn't mastered writing is also probably struggling with warfare and environmental factors that make other skills more highly valued.

Still, it would be pretty cool to have a society that chooses its political leaders through a Battle of the Bands rather than an election. The reins of power shall go to whoever can perform the greatest face-melting guitar solo.

fermosquera69 · Feb 10, 2014

Vulgarian said:
I'm thinking a city state founded on an imitation of Plato's Republic could well proceed along these lines, with the aritocratic philosophers required to show mastery in music as well as mathematics.

Perhaps have a group of Greek Exiles sail out to the canary islands and attempt to found a society along the lines of the Republic.

Uhura's Mazda said:
So, turn Atlantis into a true story? That would have massive effects on European culture if they found actual proof of Atlantis during the Enlightenment, and if they discovered evidence of 'musicracy' then the First French Republic and the USA might have incorporated it into their Consitutions!

Dom Pedro III said:
I would think a preliterate society would be a good place to start for this. Songs were an important way for storing social knowledge in these societies. This could give rise to a political class where song composition might become more valued than oratory. This would be particularly true if music is considered to have ritual power. Great musicians might be viewed as having divine favor.

Of course, given that preliterate societies did use music as both a mnemonic technology and as a powerful ritual tool, the lack of "musicracies" suggests that they're extremely improbable. Any society that still hasn't mastered writing is also probably struggling with warfare and environmental factors that make other skills more highly valued.

Still, it would be pretty cool to have a society that chooses its political leaders through a Battle of the Bands rather than an election. The reins of power shall go to whoever can perform the greatest face-melting guitar solo.

Well... I think that a nation that masters writing and music and all the other nation-making finesse, can be plausible... Musical weapons anyone?

Emperor Julian · Feb 10, 2014

Fabius Maximus said:
Maybe some kind of theocracy in which priests are also bards as well as political leaders...?

Hm, this sounds plausible. A religion where music plays a central role taking over as a theocracy.

Green Painting · Feb 10, 2014

Dom Pedro III said:
I would think a preliterate society would be a good place to start for this. Songs were an important way for storing social knowledge in these societies. This could give rise to a political class where song composition might become more valued than oratory. This would be particularly true if music is considered to have ritual power. Great musicians might be viewed as having divine favor.

So it's a type of theocracy?

Dom Pedro III said:
Of course, given that preliterate societies did use music as both a mnemonic technology and as a powerful ritual tool, the lack of "musicracies" suggests that they're extremely improbable. Any society that still hasn't mastered writing is also probably struggling with warfare and environmental factors that make other skills more highly valued.

I read about the Ancient Persians who had a despise for writing, thinking of it as an inferior art mastered by conquered nations (Babylonians etc.) The same Persians had a rich music/oral epic tradition. So maybe...

profxyz · Feb 10, 2014

I think if a Pythagorean had come into real power during early Ancient Greece - and especially Athens - they could have implemented their idea of music+math as the 'harmony of the spheres' and therefore a way to discover the secrets of the universe, so to speak.

Have the Pythagoreans rule Athens successfully/peacefully and maybe this doctrine would morph, over time, into music not only as a way to learn about the universe but also a way to 'communicate' with the universe and thus with the Gods. And since a ruler who could communicate with the Gods was obviously better than a ruler who couldn't, you'd have music as a key criteria for selection for high office.

And thus, given the influence of Athens on the rest of Greece, Rome, and the Western World, you might thus have systems of musicracy seen as the 'ideal' form of government and thus political systems would try and copy it as much as possible.

Evan · Feb 10, 2014

TFSmith121 said:
Heck, Tolkien suggested the gods singing the universe into existence.

Maybe set it in his universe.

To get this idea out of ASB-land, we could have some society invent, as a "real" myth, the gods creating the world by singing. Perhaps all priests could be trained as musicians; a lot of OTL societies had - and OTL religions still have! - guilds of musicians associated with temples. Then, we just have the priests take over government as a theocracy. Right there we have our musicracy!

Or for a less-regimented alternative, all wandering bards and musicians could be honored as links to the gods. Eventually, some highly-religious political reformer could propose that only musicians have the inner nobility required to govern. This musicracy would probably break down pretty quickly or else devolve into would-be politicians taking a year off to learn the lute/pipes/whatever, but it could possibly exist for a time.

PoorBoy · Feb 10, 2014

Green Painting said:
.... But unlike the rest, music seems never been the way to political power.

The challenge, should you choose to take it, is to have skills in Music as a part of the criteria for politician selection/election, or even the main criteria. It can happen in an aristocratic or non-aristocratic society.

The Philippines seems to be on its way there...

Green Painting · Feb 10, 2014

PoorBoy said:
The Philippines seems to be on its way there...

This is not counted. They may elect singers, but their elected officials are just figureheads to serve those kingmakers pulling strings from behind the scene.

Urcea · Feb 10, 2014

I mean, if the Bible is to be believed, that was how David entered the royal court under King Saul

Dom Pedro III · Feb 11, 2014

Green Painting said:
So it's a type of theocracy?

More or less. Music was often tied to religious ritual or thought of as somehow divinely inspired. The ability create music should at least be seen as a form of divine favor.

I read about the Ancient Persians who had a despise for writing, thinking of it as an inferior art mastered by conquered nations (Babylonians etc.) The same Persians had a rich music/oral epic tradition. So maybe...

Yeah, that's not a bad idea to work off of.

As Spelf already mentioned one example of an ancient story where music (sort of) served as a way to political power is in the Biblical account of David's rise in the court of King Saul. From 1 Samuel 16:23: "Whenever the spirit from God came on Saul, David would take up his lyre and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him."

Again, it's an example of how connected religion/spirituality and music were at that time. I would think that in order for music to play a prominent role in the selection of leaders, it would have to be as some kind of substitute for oratory. This could either be through long planned performances that demonstrate the person's command of the oral histories, or through some kind of freestyle musical debate. A sort of ancient "rap battle".

EDIT:

Actually, I had a thought. The Inca had a festival where the young men would be tested through feats of strength. Their ability would determine their place in the military ranks. Perhaps a similar rite of passage in another society using music could determine a person's social station.