Widely used war wagons?

What, if anything, would change if the Hussite War Wagons became a commonplace item and kept evolving there, in the european armies?

Nothing, I suppose, because that's what happened. Central European armies used war wagons well into the seventeenth century. Some designers got very creative (there's an interestingv exhibit of proposed models dating around 1620 in the germanisches Nationalmuseum), but basically, you had wagons with folding walls attached. The practice was abandoned around the mid-seventeenth century, my guess is because the new type of army is larger, better organised, and capable of reliably mounting guard to protect its camps.

carlton_bach said:

Nothing, I suppose, because that's what happened. Central European armies used war wagons well into the seventeenth century. Some designers got very creative (there's an interestingv exhibit of proposed models dating around 1620 in the germanisches Nationalmuseum), but basically, you had wagons with folding walls attached. The practice was abandoned around the mid-seventeenth century, my guess is because the new type of army is larger, better organised, and capable of reliably mounting guard to protect its camps.

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I´d say the main reason for its abandoning is that the arrival of field artillery made them, like the Gulay Gorod, either too heavy to be practicable or simply death traps. When the enemy can kill you without you having an opportunity to fight back you quickly abandon the idea which got you into that situation. It is notable that in situations where the enemy did under guarantee not have artillery (like the American West), similiar tactics were used, though not with specialised vehicles.

You do know that war wagons and barricade wagons were not a Hussite invention, right ? Because saying otherwise is like peddling all those typical memes about the katana being teh best sword in history evar. Barricade wagons were used as early as the 6th and 7th century, by Germanic and Slavic nationalities alike. And war wagons in the Hussite sence (arguably the earliest example of a technical) were developed independently in several parts of Europe during the High Middle Ages. It's just that central and southeastern Europe kept them as a military tactic the longest. They were used regularly in Hungary by both armies and revolting peasants until the Dóža Uprising of the 1510s. After that, they were only used as an occassional solution, since their heyday was mostly over by then.

The thing about Hussites, war wagons and wagenburg formations is that they perfected them as a military solution/tactic. And the secret to Hussite successes were not just the wagon-related tactics themselves, but also related military tactics, developed with subterfuge and effective travel times in mind. The Hussite armies were among the first to march and tow their equipment even during nighttime, which was fairly uncommon for most armies back then. But it gave them a much needed edge over those underestimated "rapid deployment" travel, as tiring as it was.

And also, the Hussites weren't exactly obsessed with chivalry. They were pragmatic late medieval warriors to a fault. Hide in the wagenburg, defend it like a fort against attackers, then send out some medium cavalry and heavy infantry to mop the attackers up once they rout.

historyfool said:

I´d say the main reason for its abandoning is that the arrival of field artillery made them, like the Gulay Gorod, either too heavy to be practicable or simply death traps. When the enemy can kill you without you having an opportunity to fight back you quickly abandon the idea which got you into that situation. It is notable that in situations where the enemy did under guarantee not have artillery (like the American West), similiar tactics were used, though not with specialised vehicles.

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The Gulay Gorod was used through to the second half of the 17th c. with decent success (see Siege of Baturin, Khmelnitsky Uprising, etc.), and Russia's been using cannon extensively since the 15th c. so it wasn't just the availability of cannon, it was probably the kind of cannon used that mattered (iron cannonballs?). Plus by the late 17th c. the armount of archers as a % of the army dropped to anywhere between 5-30% depending on who was fighting, which probably reduced the need to shield from arrows specifically.

However, wagenburgs are a staple of steppe warfare and medieval Russian/Byzantine sources are repelete with examples of their use since the 9th c. onwards.

I note that they weren't widely used in Western Europe, and have seen a suggestion it was because of hedgerows/stonewall field partitions/ditches that W. European countryside has lots and lots of. All of the would impede mobility for both the wagons themselves and the cavalry they are meant to protect against.