Is it at all possible that the US or CS armies may have created something we would recognizes as a "tank" today, based off of a kind of "Land Ironclad"?
Civil War Tanks?
- Thread starter Prime Minister
- Start date
Probably something similar to the Hussite war wagons could be devised, but with no real viability on a 1860s battleground.
There was an earlier British project:
but the steam engine seemingly turned too weak to move it if with any form of armor;
and even so
the guns had to be removed to obtain a satisfying mobility...
but the steam engine seemingly turned too weak to move it if with any form of armor;
and even so
the guns had to be removed to obtain a satisfying mobility...
frlmerrin
Banned
American steam technology is not up to it.
In the Crimean war the British used steam traction engines as artillery tractors and to haul road trains of supplies. I could never really understand why the did not end up with a self-propelled gun? Maybe because it was the last big war against anyone that you would need to shoot an SPG against until WWI?
Well, yes, you can have steam tanks, OTL produced steam engines compact and good enough to power automobiles and airplanes, so one of those engines in a tank isn't much of a stretch.
You can see an example right here:
http://www.flyingmag.com/blogs/fly-wire/steam-powered-airplane-anyone
The catch of course, is that this engine was built with 20th technology, not 1860's, so you can forget about civil war soldiers shoveling coal in your land ironclad, instead you'll end up with something fed by liquid fuel and looking surprisingly modern (think less of alt-19th century tech and more of an alt-20th century where the internal combustion engine isn't so dominant for some reason or other).
You can see an example right here:
http://www.flyingmag.com/blogs/fly-wire/steam-powered-airplane-anyone
The catch of course, is that this engine was built with 20th technology, not 1860's, so you can forget about civil war soldiers shoveling coal in your land ironclad, instead you'll end up with something fed by liquid fuel and looking surprisingly modern (think less of alt-19th century tech and more of an alt-20th century where the internal combustion engine isn't so dominant for some reason or other).
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There were steam carriages at the time. There was an armed (steam gun, I believe) and armored steam car built during the ACW. Photos on the net. It ran fine on a hard street but bogged down in soft soil (boiler too heavy and wheels were probably too narrow). The steam road engines of the era and later had very wide wheels.
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SPGs are not tanks, so the British being able to use steam traction engines as artillery tractors does not mean that they could make a viable steam tank.
TFSmith121
Banned
Non-horse-drawn mobile heavy artillery:
With a locomotive behind it, and track that was intentionally laid to bear on various targets, this is about as close as you could get,, I think.
Best,
With a locomotive behind it, and track that was intentionally laid to bear on various targets, this is about as close as you could get,, I think.
Best,
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With a locomotive behind it, and track that was intentionally laid to bear on various targets, this is about as close as you could get,, I think.
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This'll work in a siege, I've never read of using a gun like this. Lay the track in a curve as in otl, and hammer away.
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IIRC, war wagon was armed with gatling. I'd imagine that's about as heavy a weapon as could be moved easily in an armored shell. Europeans had something very similar (with the wheels removed) used as a portable strong point.
>There was an earlier British project:
but the steam engine seemingly turned too weak to move it if with any form of armor;
and even so
the guns had to be removed to obtain a satisfying mobility...
>
>
Steam powered DaVinci war car? The guns are much too large.
War wagons, more generally 'wagon rings (laagers)' were quite efficient against enemies lacking artillery, were they horse archers of the 'nomad culture' type (including in the Plains of North America) or foot warriors favoring hand to hand combat such as the Zulus (Battle of the Blood River) -provided the terrain doesn't hampers the movement of the wagons. The Cossacks had light guns swivel-mounted on their wagons that could theoretically be used on the march (?).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab5UVdxHPcY
would be slightly more credible:
that is, something along the lines of this (clockwork powered?) 18th C. design:
For the crew to reload without dismounting (possibly on the move) the gun if mouth loaded has to be shorter barreled: as it happens the Chevalier de Folard designed a light very short artillery piece decades before the first caronade was cast:
As for 'armor' even with a much more efficient steam engine such 'steam tank' would at most be protected by double pavisas of hardened buff skin (which according to Maurice de Saxe are enough to stop musket bullets); with a lid as in warships gun ports at the front.
And, yes, a Puckle 'machine gun' would be a perfectly fitting secondary weapon!
Honestly, while the steam engine would be used to move the 'tank' in battle / on the tabletop (at infantry in line speed), for long distance displacements the 'self propelled' gun would better use animal traction: oxen drink less and are far easier to feed than a primitive steam engine!
18th C. Science Fiction / 'Lacepunk', specially in the military domain, does have interesting potential -even if less well known than that of Victorian SF / 'Steampunk'.
Indeed, specially given they are mouth-loading caronades! A single caronade on a 'reversed' (with the steam engine -and the steering axle?- at the rear) Cugnot Fardier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab5UVdxHPcY
would be slightly more credible:
that is, something along the lines of this (clockwork powered?) 18th C. design:
For the crew to reload without dismounting (possibly on the move) the gun if mouth loaded has to be shorter barreled: as it happens the Chevalier de Folard designed a light very short artillery piece decades before the first caronade was cast:
As for 'armor' even with a much more efficient steam engine such 'steam tank' would at most be protected by double pavisas of hardened buff skin (which according to Maurice de Saxe are enough to stop musket bullets); with a lid as in warships gun ports at the front.
And, yes, a Puckle 'machine gun' would be a perfectly fitting secondary weapon!
Honestly, while the steam engine would be used to move the 'tank' in battle / on the tabletop (at infantry in line speed), for long distance displacements the 'self propelled' gun would better use animal traction: oxen drink less and are far easier to feed than a primitive steam engine!
18th C. Science Fiction / 'Lacepunk', specially in the military domain, does have interesting potential -even if less well known than that of Victorian SF / 'Steampunk'.
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